I am going to be the companion from hell on this holiday

[Plasticfoot]

Stop me!

I'm a fairly experienced mountain walker, something I did a lot with DH until he died. I haven't been since.

This summer, a group of my fittest friends have decided to climb a big one. They're fit, it's well within their capabilities, but I don't think they realise quite how hard it will be and they don't know mountains.

I'm really struggling to convince them about the kit they'll need, or the planning the route needs, the fact that the weather (visibility) matters or that navigation isnt just a matter of following the path. Some are even talking about taking beer up with them.

I've done this mountain a couple of times before, a tough challenge but straightforward in good weather. People die on it though and I've turned back when the weather turned, as it does in the mountains.

I can already feel I'm getting on people's nerves. I know I do worry, but there are reasons for that.

Currently I'm trying to tell them we can't fix a certain day for the climb, we'll need to look at the weather forecast closer to the time and be ready to go next day, if it looks OK, which seems normal to me and will make for a safer, more enjoyable trip. No one's getting it. I'm getting frustrated and they think I'm being bossy and overdramatic.

That's my guess too!

(Dunno why I've become so invested in guessing the mountain.)

@Sidebeforeself

See it's people like you that don't plan or take sensible precautions that put other peoples lives at risk saving your butt

Don't go, let them find this out for themselves if they're not listening

@Sidebeforeself

it wasn't a joke, no one is laughing.

yes, they do, but fewer would if they planned & took precautions

I’d say back out. Being the only one taking proper precautions means if things do go wrong, you could be at risk as well.

If they want to try and make a dangerous climb that has literally killed people in inadequate gear and unsuitable conditions, you should warn them (as you have done) but then refuse to have anything to do with it.

Don't go. Let them be stupid on their own.

Yep this, I wouldn't go. They sound like idiots.

And softy southerner English ones!

I follow lots of the MRTs on X, and watched the recent Lake District MRT series.

To be fair many experienced walkers need rescuing (anyone can trip or turn an ankle or other accidents or unexpected illness onset) but are due to numpties who can’t navigate or set off just before dusk and then get surprised , or do something really foolish (dive headfirst into an unknown rock pool…)

It is also true that thousands of less prepared and inexperienced people trot up Helvellyn in trainers carrying 500ml of water and a phone for selfies, and come to no harm whatsoever.

It's not any of the really famous ones, another in one of those ranges, which will be much quieter (which is the reason for choosing it).

@KatiesMumWoof What on earth are you on about? People like me? So nobody is ever allowed to make a light hearted quip? I wasn’t saying OP was wrong to be worried - see my next comment. And “It wasn’t a joke - nobody is laughing?” What , you’ve checked the whole of the internet have you?

@Plasticfoot

yeah, there's no shortage of half wits who think they're funny.

Don't go with them. Your first trip after losing your DH (I'm very sorry xx) needs to be with people who make you feel safe, not on edge.

pull out & find other people to go with, possibly daunting the first time, but lots of great people looking for like minded people to do safe trips with xx

90% of people have never had an actually waterproof waterproof. So I wouldn’t worry about this OP.
A) they won’t know the difference.
B) They will just be uncomfortable which at the time might be a blessing as more likely to want to turn back; saving you from an argument hillside if they all defiantly any to trek into danger.

Let them crack on.

Tryfan? That is one place I wouldn't want to go up unprepared.

Anyway , OP I didnt mean to derail your thread with - god forgive me, a quip.

The switch to flat vs hills will be a bit of a shock if they've only done flat running. Maybe plan in a hike to a wild swimming spot before the big walk as a bit of a warm up - wild swimming with a bit of a hike is much nicer than in car accessible locations... That includes other planned activities on the "quiet".

Helvellyn took me and DH 4 attempts and about 5 nope not even trying today before we finally got up it on a (well prepared) whim - we changed our plans because a weather window happened!

I'd also point out that regardless of safety a lot of the experience on a mountain is about the views and a perfectly safe but murky day misses a lot of the actual fun of the day. I've been up stuff and barely seen anything, could have probably had the same experience switching between the stairclimber and treadmill in a gym...

I'm not bothered about climbing a mountain if there is little chance of views, I'm not in a 'need to do the Munros/Wainwrights' stage of my life at the moment where it would be different...

I wouldn’t go and I would back out of conversations regarding it.

Also, utrarunners should know about prep and safety. You wouldn’t try to run an ultra without proper trainers and you certainly wouldn’t drink beer while doing it. You’d take their advice as the ones with experience and they should extend you the same courtesy.

On the positive note, most ultras now call for proper taped seam waterproofs. If you can persuade them to throw some warm layers, woolly hat and gloves and head torch in their packs and they have you for navigation, you should be fine in good weather and I’d relax about it all. If the weather conditions aren’t good enough however on the day I’d refuse to go. If they still decide to climb when their experienced companion decides it’s too risky, it’s on them.

They're not mountain ultras, just longer runs, no lit lists etc.

If they are very fit provided the weather is okay and they let someone know where they are going and when they are expected back I would expect that they should be fine even without a lot of prep.

I saw all sorts of oddly dressed and frankly unfit people getting up and down the cobbler recently.
It sounds as though you are going to a more remote location but it is hard in the summer to hills with no one else on them.

My DB always takes a beer to enjoy on his Monroes, although he is well prepared. So they may just have seen SM posts like his.

It is nice of you to try and prepare them but I would let them make their own mistakes without worrying too much.

@Toastandmarmaladeisdelish

This is something I don't understand.

Probably because I come from a country that gets much colder /icier/snow laden (as well as much hotter), and with taller mountains:

How can people die in the UK in the summer (in the mountains I mean)??
I mean the temperatures / humidity/ snow levels etc are not something that I'd think people would find dangerous in my country. Unpleasant yes
(I mean from the conditions, obviously I understand if it's from a fall..)

I think this, or don't go at all.
90% chance they'll be fine (in their trainers with their beer) but they might not be and you don't want to condone this by going if you are not happy to.

I'd be worried that if you did go, but wanted to turn back half way due to weather that this would place you in a very tricky situation if they wanted to carry on.

I have a friend who is very involved in his local mountain rescue team. Some of his team members were training in Ben Nevis and one of his team (well trained mountain rescuer) literally took a wrong step, fell and died. It was tragic but my point is if it can happen to a well trained mountain rescuer it can definitely happen to inexperienced idiots who wont listen to any instructions or directions from you. I would be having second thoughts OP.

They get blown off edges. They navigate themselves off a ridge and fall to their deaths. They slip on wet rock and die/break a leg. They get lost and don’t take enough/any food/water/warm clothes, get injured and if they haven’t told anyone where they are going nobody raises the alarm and they die of exposure. Mountains get cold at night in the rain (and in the day, if you go high enough and the weather is crap even in summer).

If you try and go up Snowdon in flip flops and a t-shirt and the weather closes in even in summer, you will get very cold very quickly. People die it's a fact. Opposite also, 32 degrees in the Brecon Beacons in Wales, SAS trainees died a few years ago.

I'd not be too fussed on the "waterproof" question as at most budget levels there is a balance between weight, breathability and effective waterproofing. I've lived in Devon and Scotland and walked in Wales and the lakes and my budget taped seam waterproofs have mostly done the job, I have a better one now for Scottish school runs than I did for walking! Walked up the Glyders in torrential rain and the only bit that got wet was the front/side of my neck where the rain was running down my face ...