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Can the parents reach closure with this?

225 replies

mids2019 · 26/06/2024 19:17

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw4448xx4keo

Horrible tragedy but the driver was completely innocent having had an epileptic seizure with none previously occuring. The problem seems to be the parents can't accept this. Should they have been advised against not making a statement as it will probably exacerbate the huge guilt felt by the driver for no reason.

School photo images of Nuria Sajjad, left, and Selena Lau - Nuria has glasses and her long dark hair in bunches; Selena is smiling at the camera and has part of her shoulder-length dark hair in a plait

Wimbledon school crash: Woman faces no charges over girls' deaths

Nuria Sajjad and Selena Lau died when a Land Rover crashed into an end-of-term tea party in Wimbledon.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw4448xx4keo

OP posts:
ThePerkyDuck · 03/07/2024 16:23

lolly792 · 03/07/2024 15:53

If anyone could say they had a first time seizure I'm sure it would be happening on a regular basis to avoid criminal charges. It doesn't take a high level hot shot lawyer to suggest it. Any duty solicitor called in could suggest it's a possibility!

It's clearly not that simple; there's obviously more to this case and it may well be that the driver has had confirmed seizures since, recorded on EEG, or it may be that witnesses to the event observed things that we can't know. There will also have been extensive testing on the vehicle, whether the accelerator was hit accidentally and the car sped up, whether there was any braking etc etc etc

But don’t you think a person that killed 2 people by accident or not should face a trial where all the medical and other evidence including the doctors and witnesses testimonies should be heard by the victims relatives and a jury to decide if it was indeed an unfortunate accident?

Also if there is no camera I won’t relay on witnesses evidence only. Not because they can lie, but because the memory is not reliable, it is scientifically proven. I was in an accident myself and what a witness told the police about a part of the accident was totally different from what was captured by the camera and there was no point lying in that instance.

Midlifeepilepsy · 03/07/2024 16:47

Name changed as this is hugely outing.
at the age of 34 I left my parents house one day. I turned out their street towards the main road and then something weird happened. It felt like boiling water being poured over my head and down my body. I couldn’t speak but I could swerve the car to the side of the road and hit the hazards. Couldn’t speak. Dh was shouting at me - what’s up etc. In a few minutes I was fine. I explained what happened and drove home. Didn’t think about it until two weeks later the same thing happened again at home. And then a third time etc. A few stressful months later after a whole raft of tests and scans my epilepsy was confirmed. Now on medication for life. Seizure free for over a decade now. So I can believe she suddenly had an epileptic seizure as it happened to me.

lolly792 · 03/07/2024 16:56

@ThePerkyDuck face a trial for what?

SocoBateVira · 03/07/2024 17:18

ThePerkyDuck · 03/07/2024 16:23

But don’t you think a person that killed 2 people by accident or not should face a trial where all the medical and other evidence including the doctors and witnesses testimonies should be heard by the victims relatives and a jury to decide if it was indeed an unfortunate accident?

Also if there is no camera I won’t relay on witnesses evidence only. Not because they can lie, but because the memory is not reliable, it is scientifically proven. I was in an accident myself and what a witness told the police about a part of the accident was totally different from what was captured by the camera and there was no point lying in that instance.

Edited

Ok, so how would this 'trial' work here?

The CPS don't think there's enough evidence to make a conviction realistic. This covers everything from some evidence but not enough to no evidence at all to a case they believe has no legal merit. This is going to put their barrister in a rather delicate position when it comes to presenting the case to the court, since they're not allowed to lie. You don't think the defence would absolutely fall all over that?

The problem you have here is that you want the evidence and the CPS assessment of it to be different to what it is now. If there wasn't a camera, they have to manage without one. Decisions need to be made based on the evidence as it exists, not what you'd like to exist. Our system is creaking enough without pissing away resources on extended procedural sulks because we wish there'd been video footage.

And @lolly792 made a fair point about seizures. If it was that easy, why doesn't it happen every time someone crashes a car and doesn't fancy the consequences? It isn't about hot shot lawyers, because people on MN who clearly are not hot shot lawyers came up with the idea. And the families of the victims in this case have retained their own lawyers, which most don't, meaning they're actually better placed than people in this situation usually are. So it's an important question to answer.

UnpackingBooksFromBoxes · 03/07/2024 20:36

ThePerkyDuck · 03/07/2024 16:23

But don’t you think a person that killed 2 people by accident or not should face a trial where all the medical and other evidence including the doctors and witnesses testimonies should be heard by the victims relatives and a jury to decide if it was indeed an unfortunate accident?

Also if there is no camera I won’t relay on witnesses evidence only. Not because they can lie, but because the memory is not reliable, it is scientifically proven. I was in an accident myself and what a witness told the police about a part of the accident was totally different from what was captured by the camera and there was no point lying in that instance.

Edited

There will be a hearing where all the evidence is presented it called an inquest.

Chartreux · 03/07/2024 21:19

GlassHeart1 · 03/07/2024 11:04

With you @masomenos and @hohohomey and I expect yes, we are more likely to see more of those random epilepsy accidents ☹️ 👿

Even if she wasn't on the phone or was on hands-free phone, she could have been distracted by something else and hit accelerator instead of the break and that to me would surely be careless driving.

So sad for the parents going through it ☹️

Do you seriously imagine the police haven't thought of that and investigated it thoroughly? As others have pointed out, the police really investigate these things very forensically, and cars leave a lot of evidence of how they've been driven just before an accident. So they've checked this and discounted it.

What's a break in a car anyway?

masomenos · 04/07/2024 09:56

Investigated thoroughly, you say?

Met Police’s investigation to be investigated

People want and need to believe in a credible police form, despite reams of evidence to the contrary going back decades. Perhaps some of the Met’s defenders on this thread are members or family members of members, because ignoring what’s under your nose year after year after year after year really does take some doing. And that’s just the Met.

SocoBateVira · 04/07/2024 09:59

Nothing wrong with the Met doing a review. It's a more sensible idea than trying to get the CPS to conduct a trial when they don't think there's sufficient chance of success.

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 04/07/2024 10:17

I think in the circumstances a review is needed but I'm fully expecting people to say its corrupt when the review comes back as everything done correctly or only minor flaws ie not fast enough updating parents or something. Some people are determined to see this as something other than a tragic accident

lolly792 · 04/07/2024 10:39

The evidence is not just from the Met, it's from medical experts too, that the woman suffered an epileptic seizure

RosaRoja · 04/07/2024 10:56

The headteacher is reported as being surprised she wasn’t interviewed as a witness.

MontagueLeo · 04/07/2024 11:36

None of this is going to bring the girls back 😔

SocoBateVira · 04/07/2024 11:42

Well no, but I think the review is fair enough.

saraclara · 04/07/2024 11:43

RosaRoja · 04/07/2024 10:56

The headteacher is reported as being surprised she wasn’t interviewed as a witness.

I saw that, and found it really quite concerning.

I'm happy to take back everything I've posted on this thread, if it turns out that the police didn't interview some of those on the spot, who witnessed the event from start to finish. That's negligence at best, and one would also have to wonder why they didn't.

RosaRoja · 04/07/2024 11:48

MontagueLeo · 04/07/2024 11:36

None of this is going to bring the girls back 😔

Sadly not. But the only thing left for the parents is to feel they understand why it happened, and that it was fully investigated.

soupfiend · 04/07/2024 19:51

ThePerkyDuck · 03/07/2024 16:23

But don’t you think a person that killed 2 people by accident or not should face a trial where all the medical and other evidence including the doctors and witnesses testimonies should be heard by the victims relatives and a jury to decide if it was indeed an unfortunate accident?

Also if there is no camera I won’t relay on witnesses evidence only. Not because they can lie, but because the memory is not reliable, it is scientifically proven. I was in an accident myself and what a witness told the police about a part of the accident was totally different from what was captured by the camera and there was no point lying in that instance.

Edited

A trial for what?

What is the charge to be and what is the evidence to support the charge?

TeenLifeMum · 04/07/2024 20:11

I don’t understand the parents need for this woman to go to prison. What will that achieve? Is awfully tragic but sometimes awful things happen and it’s an accident.

ThePerkyDuck · 04/07/2024 20:49

soupfiend · 04/07/2024 19:51

A trial for what?

What is the charge to be and what is the evidence to support the charge?

The charge would be that she was in control of a vehicle that killed 2 people. Her barrister should identify conclusive evidence.

Also I find it strange that in the article above the police didn’t interview the teacher as a witness that was present at the time of the accident.

SocoBateVira · 04/07/2024 20:51

ThePerkyDuck · 04/07/2024 20:49

The charge would be that she was in control of a vehicle that killed 2 people. Her barrister should identify conclusive evidence.

Also I find it strange that in the article above the police didn’t interview the teacher as a witness that was present at the time of the accident.

Her barrister should identify conclusive evidence to support the charge against her?

lolly792 · 04/07/2024 20:58

@ThePerkyDuck what on earth are you on about?

ThePerkyDuck · 04/07/2024 21:01

@lolly792 have you read the article?

Realduchymarmalade · 04/07/2024 21:08

I know it’s unreasonable but the sight of that enormous beast of a Landrover made me feel really angry. If she had been driving a modest car, suitable for urban life, then this may have turned out differently. I judge anyone driving those gross symbols of wealth in the capitol.

SocoBateVira · 04/07/2024 21:28

Realduchymarmalade · 04/07/2024 21:08

I know it’s unreasonable but the sight of that enormous beast of a Landrover made me feel really angry. If she had been driving a modest car, suitable for urban life, then this may have turned out differently. I judge anyone driving those gross symbols of wealth in the capitol.

I think that's a lot more reasonable than some of the other posts this thread. It's very anti social.

ThePerkyDuck · 04/07/2024 23:19

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