Can the parents reach closure with this?

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw4448xx4keo

Horrible tragedy but the driver was completely innocent having had an epileptic seizure with none previously occuring. The problem seems to be the parents can't accept this. Should they have been advised against not making a statement as it will probably exacerbate the huge guilt felt by the driver for no reason.

Well tbf, the armchair detectives probably know a lot more than the medical professionals who actually examined the poor woman because they uh ..had a quick google 😬

Oh you're privy to local gossip? Well there you go, the courts can disregard the medical experts and neurological specialists along with any tests and evidence they've provided.. because @hohohomey has the curtain twitchers goss 🙄

Of course it will have taken time- they will have had to do brain scans and tests on the driver, and investigate her claim that she had never had any symptoms before and that she was unaware that it was a possibility, she wasn’t speeding, on drugs, feeling faint when she decided to drive that day etc etc. It all takes time.

They could have made it quick by just taking her word for it that she didn’t know why she lost control or by summarily charging her with causing death by dangerous driving, but that wouldn’t have been better.

Awful situation for everyone.
very unclear what parents are after here - it could have been one of them (anyone, you, me, etc) who randomly had a seizure and crashed somewhere, I hope they are getting adequate psychological support as that is likely to be much more beneficial than getting tangled in pointless legal and media campaigns. No ‘investigation’ can prevent random medical events or accidents from sometimes happening.
feel for both sides here, ghastly.

Not sure what the significance is of the driver being wealthy? The parents of the children are also very wealthy and no doubt everyone involved had expensive legal representation.
It's not like the rich getting one over on the poor.

It's a terrible set of utterly unpredictable circumstances which has devastated the lives of everyone involved.

Predictably there's the usual few posters who can't accept this (maybe it's too scary for them to admit that random accidents do happen. And that there isn't always someone to blame.) I wonder how they would feel if it were their daughter, son or husband who suffered an unpredictable medical episode which led to the deaths of others? I wonder if they'd be so happy to see vicious online comments blaming them?

As for the curtain twitcher 'I've heard local gossip' comment. Yeah. Of course the local rumour mill is going to know all the facts far better than the medical experts and those who've actually seen the evidence.

There were many eye-witnesses at the scene- parents and teachers at the school. The driver was conscious at the point of impact, got out of the car unaided immediately after, and was not drowsy, hadn't wet herself etc. It is implausible that she left the golf club car park 30 metres up the road, suddenly had a fit which had resolved and had not after effects, all within the space of 1-2 minutes.

All the people stating that 'scans must have been falsified' or 'doctors lied' etc clearly do not have a clue about epilepsy and how it is diagnosed.

Epilepsy is not diagnosed by a scan. There is nothing to see on a brain scan, unless there is a brain tumour or similar pathology which has triggered the seizure. Her scans were clear (same for many with epilepsy)
An EEG shortly after a seizure would often pick up changes in brainwaves. It is possible that this wasn't done within the timescale, or that no changes were detected. After a couple of hours, the window for detecting this will have passed.
There is no medical evidence to back up her version of events. The driver has been diagnosed on her self-reported history. This is the same for many who have a diagnosis of epilepsy. So no doctors lying or scans falsified.

With the drivers lawyers pushing the narrative that this was a tragic accident, the CPS would need to prove that she didn't have a seizure, or was unfit to drive for some other reason. Once they have ruled out drugs/ alcohol/ previous medical condition it all hangs on her word that she had a seizure and it is actually impossible to prove that she did not. The expensive lawyers are the main factor here because they will continually cast doubt 'but could she have had a seizure....? ' and of course the answer from any doctor will always be yes,it is a possibility.

The anger from the girls parents and others at the school is understandable. Everyone knows the seizure story is a load of rubbish and justice has not been done. More will come out at the inquest.

@hohohomey gosh you'd better present your evidence that the seizure is a complete lie to the CPS!

Utterly laughable if it wasn't so tragic. Embarrassing to be so easily influenced by local gossip.

forensics can determine phone usage prior to and during a crash, so this local
gossip sounds like BS

My sister has seizures. Not all seizures are grand mal, like people expect. Often other people might not notice she is having one, she has a lot of focal seizures (often called absence seizures). They can be short and she can be coherent a few minutes afterwards.

I am trying to explain how the CPS came to this decision in spite of eye witness accounts and the implausibility of a seizure given the timescale of the incident and other factors.

The point is that no one can provide evidence that a seizure did not happen.
In the absence of any evidence that a seizure did happen we only have the drivers self-report.
This outcome isn't good for anyone. The families don't feel that justice has been served and will likely pursue private prosecutions. The driver may have avoided prison, but doesn't get to clear her name in a court of law.

The law is an ass. The CPS have no choice because there is no evidence that she did, or did not have a seizure and a good lawyer will keep pushing the 'but could she have had a seizure?' narrative to the expert witnesses. As that expert witness you have to say 'well yes.... it could have been' and you get cut off before having the chance to say '....but it seems unlikely because...' with a 'no further questions'. It happens all the time unfortunately.

I take it you were interviewed by the police? @hohohomey. Certainly sounds like you should be as you have important evidence to give.

Exactly. If she was using her phone, there's no way that would have been overlooked, and there'd be very clear evidence.

People were and continue to moan that the investigation 'took so long'

When any incident occurs, certainly one like this, devices will be seized, her phone, her laptop, etc to check whether she has been messaging or searching about any illnesses or things like that

Im amazed they got phone records back in such a short space of time to be honest, Ive said on many a thread that when our clients phones are taken, they dont get them back for months and months on end, somtimes around 18 months.

To be honest I think most parents if they had the horror of their children being killed in this way would react the same as the parents with this outcome.

The driver might or might not have had a seizure, but 2 children have lost their lives. All of the pro-driver comments on here seem to fail to have compassion for that.

If I was the driver I don’t think I could live with myself even if it was due to a seizure. Those parents have to live without their children. Unbearable all round.

The police force I used to work for had a family whose teenage daughter died in a single vehicle collision. I can’t remember her age but she was over 17 but under 20. Her family to this day have never accepted that their daughter was at fault. Some people can deal with these tragedies better than others. Someone has to be at fault in their eyes. Occasionally these things are a series of unfortunate events that lead to a horrendous outcome.

I am trying to explain how the CPS came to this decision in spite of eye witness accounts and the implausibility of a seizure given the timescale of the incident and other factors.

So you believe that the medical staff involved and the medical and forensic experts are all lying in their evidence and statements?

The closure the families get is that this was a horrible accident and no one is to blame. Both the families and the driver will carry this around forever. Justice has been done no need for any more.

Have you read these medical and forensic expert statements though or have any idea what they say?

Do they say that she likely had a seizure and here is the medical proof, or do they say it's plausible that she could have had a seizure but scans show no reason for one i.e brain tumour?

I can't believe some of the bollocks that people spout on here, based on absolutely nothing other than their own uneducated opinions and conspiracy theories

What do you think the driver should or could do?! She can’t bring the children back.

Unless you are suggesting she commits suicide then she has to live with herself.

What witness accounts have you read?
What medical qualifications do you have or research have you conducted into seizures and timescales of recovery? What ‘other factors’ are you referring to?
How do you know that no one can provide evidence that a seizure did or didn’t happen?
A civil prosecution is very different to a criminal one. They’re looking at liability. You could cross the road in front of a car and you could still be awarded a payout.
The driver doesn’t need to clear her name in a court of law, her name is cleared via the police investigation and the coroner will most likely determine death by road traffic collision.
You have no way of knowing what evidence there is.
it wouldn’t solely be medical records that are taken into consideration. Every mark the vehicle made in the area is examined, the vehicle will also have some kind of black box which will provide invaluable information regarding the movements of the vehicle and how it was being driven. This programme gives some information about 20 minutes in about the information that can be gleaned. Although the programme linked does have an interesting outcome.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000fd4t

I've not read them inmydreams.

However I have a friend who experienced this sudden onset of seizures, no warning, no medical history, and whilst driving. It was sheer good luck that no one was injured or worse.

So I completely believe it can happen . Dh was in the car when it happened. It was horrific as it was

"If I was the driver I don’t think I could live with myself even if it was due to a seizure. "

Considering that the rest of your post neglected to portray even a shred of empathy for the poor driver @CIAGBF what are you actually trying to say here??