Parents of boys- what are we doing to break the cycle of entitlement and patriarchy?

[datcherygrateful]

I want to raise my son who is a teenager, to
-not grow up into an entitled man
-to eventually understand the patriarchal system that has propped many men up and supressed women and so understand and appreciate equity vs equality in relationships.
-Respect women
-Be fully functional and so won't weaponize any incompetence in his relationships.
-Have emotional intelligence and maturity
-Be emotionally available
-Be able to emotionally regulate
-Be grounded
-Communicate openly
-Understand nuance
-Align his words with actions; lives with integrity.
-Be an active listener to his future partner and children
-Advocate and stand up when a friend or peer say or do something misogynistic.

Curious to know if there are any things you have been doing, in small doses maybe, that you picked up on from your own lived experience, things that you have vowed to do or say (or not) when raising your boys

I'm generally frustrated by a lot of the threads on this site where unfortunately too little progress is made. Cycles are repeating no matter how kind we think we raise our little boys to be. Women are still bearing the brunt and the things that too many women are experiencing are shocking and it's happening to women in their 20's and 30's; so very young still. I don't want to propagate or be complicit.

In terms of small steps or micro forms or doses, what are we all doing to plant the seeds of change?

@FrazzledQuoka

I do know what Patriarchy means. I'm just suggesting the use of the term is unhelpful and will alienate some boys as while it means what you say, it is also used by other people including those in this thread to blame everything on men.

Honestly, this just makes me want to slap my own face. If just using the correct terminology will alienate boys, then we have an even bigger problem than I thought.

The use of the term Patriarchy is also unhelpful as
a) it defines the problem as some form of battle between sexes,
b) there's merit in claiming that we live in a society where men are in charge
c) "in broad terms it's a system that works well for men as a class, despite a little "collateral damage". "

I am not actually sure what you're saying here. The patriachy, as a term, is NOT about a battle between the sexes. the Patriachy is about a system that has been set up largely for and by men. Your second point makes no sense to me - what "merit" is there in claiming we live in a society where men are in charge? Also, men ARE in charge. That's actually the entire point about the patriachy. It's not a "claim" it's a fact.

a) I don't think it's helpful defining it as a battle between sexes - I care about all people and people in my family in particular - male and female.
b) Boys, especially boys of separated parents live in a matriarchy.
c) The system is demonstrably not working well for boys - lower education levels, higher death rates....

Boys are not living in a matriachy. Some boys in single parent, female led families may have a matriachal family set up, but overall, they're still living in a patriachy.

And yes, the system is not working for boys. that's the point. The irony is that the patriachy only really benefits some men.

Absolutely!!!!! Sharing the domestic load at the basic level is just the very very first step. there are about 100 after that with at least the first 5 being about other aspects of the domestic sphere in respect of mental load, decision making, taking responsibility, accountabiltiy etc.

@IdLikeToBeAFraser I'm assuming that @FrazzledQuoka 's last post has some typos in it- that's why I only addressed a couple of posts. I hope she will come back and clarify.

I'm not sure what I did but my son will happily change nappies/empty potties, cook dinner do the washing up etc. I'm so proud of him.

@GettingStuffed So long as you're equally proud of your daughter for doing the same. Nobody EVER tells a woman she's a good mum for changing a nappy!

@CurlewKate that's a kind interpretation.

@IdLikeToBeAFraser well, it's important to be kind........😉

❤️

👍

@datcherygrateful

If you want these
I am looking at filling the gap that seems to be missing...

-emotional intelligence
-emotional maturity
-being able to communicate
-words and actions aligning
-being able to emotionally regulate

then you have to be prepared to listen to the boys and not dismiss them as other posters have when they speak

Hmmm take what those idiots say with a shed load of salt. It might just mean their mum told them to put their own cereal bowl in the dishwasher and poor boo boo baby had a hissy fit!

guilty as charged - I reworded it before hitting post and ... failed.
Sorry @IdLikeToBeAFraser & @CurlewKate ... my username may have been overly apt last night.
The particularly garbled section was meant to read something like:

---
The use of the term Patriarchy is also unhelpful as
a) it defines the problem as some form of battle between sexes,
b) the term says there's merit in claiming that we live in a society where men are in charge
c) the term patriarchy alleges that "in broad terms it's a system that works well for men as a class, despite a little "collateral damage". "
---
Obviously UK society is sexist - just look at the mum/dad ratio at the school gates, or any after school activity. Yes western society is still disproportionately run by the few men at the top... who we might call patriarchs. The term Patriarchy often implies a deliberate conspiracy by these patriarchs to oppress women, I don't believe that (in the UK) - most "people at the top" don't have agendas like that - they just want power and profit.

Saying "in broad terms it's a system that works well for men", and dismissing any ill effects boys may experience as "collateral damage", is unlikely to be the best way to keep boys engaged with your message. It's unlikely to endear you to anyone who's lost a loved one to such "collateral damage" either. Saying all sexism is caused by the patriarchy, will be taken as implying because he's a boy he's to blame.

So yes explain to your children that the world is still predominantly run by white men over a certain age, who went to certain educational establishments. Explain this is bad for all of society.

Just consider not using language that may alienate boys.

Regardless of what we might wish, terms like "the patriarchy" (and even feminism at times) can paint the sexism in our society as a battle between the sexes, blaming one sex for oppressing the other, and I feel that's not a helpful message, especially for boys. It suggests that if you reduce sexism, women win and men lose.

We are all part of society, we all suffer due to sexism (directly and indirectly), we're all a bit sexist (consciously or otherwise), and we should all try to reduce sexism to make society better for all of us.

We should encourage our children to treat each other with respect, and teach them they've a right to be treated with respect. Make sure they understand sexism still exists. Make sure they can spot it and they know why it's wrong and how it hurts everyone.

The precise words we use are not that important - choose the ones we think will get through to each child.

All the male models in the family set great example. Now, the eldest is a teenager we make sure he has positive male role models around him apart from family.

Unfortunately I don't think anything I do will be enough, when they do not have many good male role models in their lives and their own Dad was domestically violent and is now absent from their lives. Boys need role models. Round here all the dads are absent or misogynistic a*holes and the boys are causing trouble outside the house, or stuck in it on video games. The schools are failing, and there is not much for young people to do.

@IdLikeToBeAFraser
re: "Boys are not living in a matriachy. "
Single mums naturally tend to associate with other single mums, they naturally tend to have negative views of at least some men (even though we try not to be negative about our exs in front of our kids, they pick up on things).

At least 90% of primary teachers are women, it's less bad at secondary but the imbalance is still there. So children of single mums at least, don't have a lot of male influences / role models / authority figures etc.

There was a thread earlier this year claiming "7-10 year old boys are the most neglected children" and to me it seems the most visibly unhappy / disruptive kids in KS2 are boys - they're unlikely to feel happy about you telling them that as their males the world was set up by and for them.

By the time they are teenagers it is too late. The first 10 years of life is when you have the most influence on their attitudes. I think boys raised with sisters stand a better chance of growing up to respect women.

And at any rate, while I do my bit, I would not verge over into thinking that it is the mother’s fault for raising a sexist/rapist/abuser. Ultimately, they get their messages from society at large, and role models can be good or bad- ie Andrew Tate is a role model for the dark side.

Most of how a boy becomes a man is not within the mother to control or decide and every man is responsible for his own mind and actions.

Agree totally. What they've seen and been taught up to the teenage years will be what forms their attitudes towards women. We gave our son an older sister which seems to have instilled the right balance of respect/fear/awe 😂

@FrazzledQuoka I honestly don't think you understand what growing up in the patriachy means. Let's take the teacher example... you're absolutely right that schools, especially primary schools, are almost always staffed far more by women.

But, statistically, men are MORE likely to be in leadership positions. I saw some research on this a few years ago and at all boy and co-ed schools (secondary school) I believe there was a higher percentage of men as head teachers. At primary, this is less true. But in both cases, the ratio of men in leadership is higher. eg if male teachers make up just 5% of the primary school teaching population, they make up 30% of the headteacher population. I'll have to see if I can find that research again.

Meanwhile, at school, children are still learning from curriculums that are male dominated - the books they read, the historical figures they learn about, the type of history they learn about (although this is changing, which is great).

these are all parts of the patriachal society in which they are growing up, notwithstanding that they might have plenty of women around them.

As for boys are the unhappiest - I think I also saw figures that white boys on FSM are the lowest performers. Which is a truly awful indictment on our society, yes. And I'm all for not telling 7 year old boys that THEY are the problem. But I'm certainly not going to avoid discussing the issues in case it upsets them.

I found this but it's not dated which is annoying.

this one is a bit clearer. Overall, women make up 75% of the teaching population but only about 66% of the head teacher population.

There's no similar data I can see for other leadership positions so I have no idea. Anecdotally, I'd say men dominate but that's just because the two schools my children have gone to have this - ie if I take the top leaders at both schools, at the primary its 3 women and 2 men. At the high school, it's 5 men. But that's certainly not enough evidence to say what it's like more broadly across the country (or world).

None of that means they live in a matriarchy though. At all. It's not a numbers game.

Them knowing far more women than men doesn't change the fact that wider society is patriarchal in that it was created by men to benefit men more than women.

The systemic issues and patriarchal set up at a societal level aren't cancelled out by a boy growing up mainly with women.

Though I agree that a boy who grows up around many women is likely to be more aware of the issues women face and have more empathy with them,

This really DS is 20 and like any 20 yo can be thoughtless and forgetful. However when his girlfriend comes over he cooks, he sorts his own laundry. His Dad is as likely to cook dinner as I am. We have always insisted that everyone clears up after dinner together.

Well that's not a surprise is it? Blaming a woman for them being an incel? And you fell for it! They can't even take ownership over their pathetic life choices.