Is Reform as bad as the BNP?

[Silviasilvertoes]

Off the back of another thread, how does Reform compare to the BNP? I loathe Farage and haven’t taken much notice of his manifesto (contract!) as I don’t want his nonsense in my head, but DM keeps telling me what’s ‘good’ about him. She has previous form for voting UKIP and thinking Johnson was much maligned and a generally nice chap. She reads the Heil every day, so I generally let discussions about politics go over my head otherwise I’d lose my cool.

I have some agreement with this statement. I voted remain, I knew what a shit show it would be, it has impacted me personally, and it will take decades to recover from, but we should stop bleating about it and look at what we are going to do next. Getting a decent government is a good first step. That rules out Conservative (who got us into this mess), and Reform (where their leader got us into this mess, and who have zero experience running a country and would look like rabbits in headlights if they ever won, just like Farage and the other 'leavers' did when the referendum result came in).

@RafaistheKingofClay I think it is beyond just rejoining. We would never be able to negotiate the same terms we had before, so the damage is done. We cannot go back, and have to find ways to progress and limit any further damage. What has been done is irreversible in the short term, so we need to start thinking about what we can do.

All those saying Reform and BNP are the same, would you really be relaxed if Reform's support (and potential MPs) switched en masse to the BNP?

I get that there's a theoretically clever game to be played by splitting Reform support off to BNP. That feels like playing with fire to me though.

Reform bad. BNP worse.

I see them as one and the same. Reform worse if anything as it attempts to be a wolf in sheep's clothing and therefore dupes people into thinking it isn't as bad as BNP

This 👆

I see them as pretty much the same thing too, so re-badging it wouldn't make a jot of difference.

Definitely more dangerous because of the wolf in sheep's clothing thing.

The trouble is I think Reform has a real chance of gaining power over the coming years, I don't think BNP have ever been a danger in the same way.

I realise this is largely hypothetical as BNP is not standing in many constituencies.

But their policies and their background are much worse than Reform.

eg policies:

Reform: Freeze all Non-Essential Immigration
BNP: Stop Immigration

I know which I prefer (as someone who's unusually pro-immigration).

eg background:

Reform: was largely UKIP
BNP: founded Combat 18 (a neo-Nazi thug group).

Again, I know which I prefer.

Of course it's possible that Reform is camouflaging its true intent. But it's possible the BNP is too. One step further for BNP would be back to when they advocated forced repatriation of non-white people.

But yes I agree the danger (in the sense of severity x likelihood, only) is greater with Reform. That's because thankfully support for true fascist parties is tiny in the UK. That could change though if people started to believe that support for the BNP were no different from support for Reform.

Reform: was largely UKIP

And UKIP was largely BNP. QED Reform is largely BNP.

Reform is BNP with a tie and a shave.

More left wing propaganda. Of course they arent as bad. BNP hardly had much of a following, UKIP certainly did and now Reform. UKIP stole tory voters rather than growing a new breed of fascists.

I can see why you would think that, but there is a good chance that all the closet racists will support Reform on the basis that it is tenuously seen as not as bad.

I think this is key. In the absence of any national candidates, it makes sense that their supporters would vote for the nearest alternative, so Reform naturally attracts BNP support.

Previously though theyd vote tory, so UKIP split the vote and same for Reform this time.

Did anyone see the BBC news report from Sheffield? They were in Brightside, a working class area, one of the 7 most deprived in the UK. It's a safe Labour seat. When people were asked what they would vote for, mostly they said Labour. However one man said Reform. When asked why, he said that Farage is "straight talking" and would "shake things up a bit".

Let’s not forget that Farage wants this man to be President of the USA again. To the extent that he campaigns for him. How can you distance Reform as a movement from this?

edition.cnn.com/2024/06/22/politics/trump-migrants-ufc/index.html

Getting us out of Europe?

For that alone he is a twat

This is pretty much DM's justification for supporting UKIP/Reform/Johnson. Straight talking? I sometimes wonder whether I'm actually related to DM. Is it generational? I'm in my 40s, DM is 77.

No he didn’t!!

Johnson? Straight talking? He wouldn't know a straight forward, honest sentence if it bit him in the arse.

No he didn't what?

Nigel Farage only turned up to one of 42 EU fisheries committee meetings
https://descrier.co.uk/politics/brexit-nigel-farage-turned-one-42-eu-fisheries-committee-meetings/

That's what @CalamitiousJoan said, and @MissingMoominMamma said "no he didn't". I wondered what was meant?

He definitely only turned up to one.

What are these policies?
I've a few times on a few threads and no one has responded.

One of the things in their contract is Pick Up Migrants out of boats and take them back to France. Who would they envisage will help with this and what will happen if France doesn't want them?