Thread 50 Sunak: Civil war, what civil war?

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5095535-thread-49-sunak-he-left-them-on-the-beaches?page=40&reply=136144491

Just over 2 weeks to go

That may be the worst case scenario in this chess game.

If you look at history and geography, there is a lot to be said for being a "powerless" agitator, rather than the person in charge. As Rish! is finding out. Basically his entire campaign has had to be run as if he just appeared as PM on 21st May and has to sell to us the massive job he has to do clearing up. Which has been the Tory narrative since ... well since Cameron in 2010. They got away with it for 18 years in 1979, but clearly an accelerated media has shrunk that by 4 years. And lowering the voting age could trim that to 12 years ?

I'm not saying that there are reform supporters who have been tasked with taking down reform posters in Clacton. But stranger things have happened.

Obvious Nigel Farage only cares about what is good for Nigel Farage. The question(s) are whether that aligns with what Putin has decided is good for Putin. A really top notch dictator (and I have my doubts as to whether Putin qualifies as top flight yet) will know exactly how to ... encourage agents to act in a way that looks like it's good for the agent.

Burgess, Philby, Maclean, Blunt, Farage - has a nice ring to it.

Well he wasn’t very constructive when he won the Brexit vote. . The one satisfying thing about the whole debacle was seeing his and Johnson’s faces when they realised they’d won.

In an alternative universe I’d love Farage to be in a position where he’d have to do some work.

Nothing Labour can say will satisfy the FWR crowd, yet the most waffley statement by the sainted Kemi is treated as gospel.

I actually agree with women only safe spaces but realise the situation is too complex to be reduced to a soundbite.

I wondered on this when we had that day with record numbers signing up...it spooked me a bit as I am possibly leaning towards conspiracies with Russia in a post Brexit world. I don't enjoy the digitalisation of everything and those found scamming the system during Covid and getting away with millions and recent hacks shows this govt are not protecting sensitive information effectively.

Well he wasn’t very constructive when he won the Brexit vote.

Penny dropping ? He managed to cause David "crap my pants Cameron" to call a stupid vote that delivered a stupid result that led to a stupid action that led to one of Europes most stable and centrist countries to suddenly become an annoying little yappy dog whose absence has destabilised 27 other countries.

And all he needed was that fucking tweed jacket and the Telegraph (literally) rolled up under his arm.

It's their Brexit.

Honestly, I think she will need a new stick to bash Labour with. Trans issues are not sufficient and they are not a vote winner. Labour can legislate their own policy and there’s not a damn thing that whatever is left of the Tories can do.

I find FWR frustrating because underlying all of it is a good point about women’s rights, single sex provision and why those rights exist. But there is massive naïve trust in certain politicians. And s serious brushing under the carpet of things that should make a critical thinker suspicious of someone saying all the right things, having power but not doing them. Kemi Badenoch is, if you believe her, in an ideal position (or was) to make changes.

A more accurate appraisal might say that she has used this issue for prominence, run down the time so she could never introduce any legislation and does not have enough support to make a case for her supposed changes. That needs looking at more critically because her actual record of delivery is poor. She doesn’t. Politicians are elected as law and policy makers. If you think it’s enough for them to say something you agree with while they are in power but they don’t actually do it, you are a fool. You are being told whst you want to hear. Self affirming chats are not the same as actually addressing and make change.

Vote For Policies. Comes up on Google so you should find it pretty quickly.

I posted on another thread this morning the WH election debate which had parties across the board saying they'd protect women's spaces, although admittedly some in more detail than others. I do think they made the point it is politics of the far right being used quite well (as in disruptively). I'll report here if anyone is interested - it did make me feel on the whole there's more that binds us than divides https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/l0056ntv/election-2024-womans-hour-election-debate

I went back and redid it after DH (who has no intention of doing it himself) said it was pointless if I didn't include the ' proper' economic stuff and only did the stuff where I was 'woke'.

He may have had a point as I then got 25% Labour.

Thankfully, I didn't accidentally vote Tory on housing.

I only recognise Daisy Cooper on there. Do you know who the others are?

Thanks Piggy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/2024/bbc-womans-hour-live-election-debate

They're listed here

Yes I think most women do. However this being the Internet there is no point discussing the middle ground (not that that stops me 😜)

Wow! I had never thought that but you are right!

👏 👏 👏 👏

Lib Dems still not forgiven by Millennials

https://youtube.com/shorts/yKGVmF9hYgE?si=K8vnGeRduVuSoO3L

Thanks - that's why I didn't recognise them. Passingly familiar with the name of the Tory and know Daisy Cooper , but none of the rest. I imagine they were quite carefully selected!

I heard a discussion about why M.Macron had called an election in France when Le Pen looks likely to win so many seats. The opinion seemed to be that the Right would "cock it up" so when the Presidential elections come round in 2027 the French public will have had enough of them. Its a dangerous game to play, if that's what Macron is doing, but maybe it will work here with Farage. Next election, hopefully, we'll be hearing Clacton people talking about what a lazy, good for nothing grifter he is.

The opinion seemed to be that the Right would "cock it up" so when the Presidential elections come round in 2027 the French public will have had enough of them.

That's what the socialists thought in 1933 in Germany . 🙄

I couldn't finish that policies survey, made my brain hurt on a Sunday 😬 The only bits I could fasten onto were the bits I recognised anyway.

I really want Farage not to win Clacton. Not just for all the serious political and ethical reasons but because I want to see his racist little face when he has to shake the hand of the new young, handsome, black MP. The joy! 🤩

Yes.

I am very much in the no seats at all category for Reform.

It's a crap state of affairs that people are voting for Trump because he was on The Apprentice Farage because he's a "celebrity" 🙄

Yes, @Lalgarh , it's a dangerous game to play. Imo we give Fascists no foothold at all.

Re France, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that the two round format will allow people to register their protest vote in the first round and then vote against Le Pen/the RN in the 2nd round.

That's traditionally how the French voted: one round with the their hearts, the second with their heads.

The clusterfuck of the Républicains supporting/not supporting her & their subsequent melt-down may help as the Right Wing is not automatically getting behind her.

But I'll still be holding my breath until both rounds are completed - both now and in the presidential elections in 2(?) years time.