Okay… so what exactly are the sacrifices made for a private school eduction (feel free to scroll past if you don’t want to read another public school one 😉)

[vote4whoeveryouwant]

Yes, know another private school one. But I keep reading about people making huge sacrifices so their children can go to private school but I’d be genuinely interested to know what these are?

I earn pretty well but we only holiday alternate years, don’t have a car and haven’t done anything to our decrepit house for years simply because we don’t have enough leftover after outgoings and all the boring stuff.

My DD has dyslexia and we did look into private school for her as she really struggles but it no matter what way we tried to rework our finances there was no way we could make it work.

😮

@hazelnutfriday
You dint have a monopoly on what sacrifice means.

Sacrifice is simple when you give something up for something else. So the people sacrificing 5* holidays and new cars for school fees are sacrificing one luxury for another.

That's still are sacrifices for them as they couldn't do both. They are explaining that they can't have it all. They have made choices.

It is the sane as if someone said they rent instead of buy a house and someone comes along and says 'some people are homeless and live in a cardboard box. Renting instead of buying isn't a sacrifice'. Or 'we decided to stop and one dc so we could send them private' and some one comes along and says 'some people can't have or don't want children so that's not a sacrifice'

No one saying this appears to be woe is me. They are simply answering the thread. What sacrifices have they made.

I don't care!! It really isn't a sacrifice - its a choice. I give up a holiday for my child's education. Bring on the Labour government and bring on this policy.

They won’t pay Vat on holidays abroad. They are zero rated. I think there was VAT on European holidays but not longer, post leaving the EU.

My kids shared a bedroom into their teens. No money to work on house. Very modest holidays. Lots of debt that we will be paying off for a long time. If losing peace of mind re finances is a sacrifice, we definitely did that.

I don't think we've made any sacrifices in the sense that we do without things that we would have if we weren't paying school fees. We have a decent amount left over after paying school fees, but we're financially conservative so rather than spend it, it gets squirreled away and invested. We do without a fair few things that many people might consider to be standard middle class expenses - no car, no gym, rarely eating out, making packed lunches for trips out, no Netflix/Sky, never using taxis, no cleaner or nanny, few new clothes, no beauty treatments, no premium cosmetics or skincare, second hand uniform and other clothes. But we could probably afford those if we wanted, and have less in investments, we just aren't interested in paying for them.

We're in North London and everyone seems fairly affluent here. I'm not convinced there are many families making sacrifices - they don't talk conspicuously about money but holidays are long haul and to nice resorts, birthday parties cost a fair bit and I never see many of the other parents in DD's class at the secondhand sales.

So I’m going to take the approach of describing the composition of the body of parents when our DC was at a prep school in the south, 50 mins by train from London.

Breaking it down into categories plus bearing in mind this was 2012-2015.

Category 1 Old money/no old money -
Mainly composed of those where one parent had attended the prep school themselves or had attended similar institutions. The age of a car (potential sacrifice) is completely irrelevant to anyone in this category, they drive big old cars they would only replace when they needed to. Holidays (potential sacrifice) they only go abroad to places where they have family or family connections, they don’t recognise Norfolk or Cornwall as making a sacrifice. They visit rather than holiday so have no concept of Airbnb or Booking.com. Payment of fees - always late (even if by Coutts cheque) and by term never enough money or the approach to parting with it that allows paying of the whole year up front. May have multiple children, won’t have shiny new uniform. To be found cheering on the sports field, raking through the trainers in the second hand uniform shop, complaining in the office about a lost sock or a letter they have been sent stating Henry’s tie is the old obsolete style and they must replace it. And, of course, a potential school governor.

Category 2 New Money - Doctors, lawyers, property developers, financial advisors, small business owners. Most of these have enough disposable income to afford whatever fee increase or expensive trip is thrown at them. Who knows whether they pay termly or annually, they wouldn’t tell you. They don’t complain, the school likes them. Occasionally, a self employed, financial advisor or property developer falls by the wayside and loses their job/money. They go quietly. They are not often on the school governors. They don’t need to make sacrifices unless they lose their job/business, if they go lose it they just go.

Category 3 Older parents/parents of one - they afford it by not having too many kids or being old enough to have a small mortgage, savings, pension prospects etc. Pay upfront for whole year. School likes these and sometimes lets them onto committees and governing bodies. They know they can afford it, sometimes they decide to leave to be prudent or because it’s not really their ideal of what education should be and ignorance of independent schools system dynamics made them falsely believe paying gives you any say in anything. Yup that was us 🤣

Category 4 Average income looking for better than the state school could offer - sacrifice features much more as a concept and sometimes as a reality. Regarding a concept - hardly any other private school parent outside this category will understand the idea of regularly replacing a car, decorating etc. Likewise, expensive holidays and/or package deals are only concepts of any meaning to this group. Reality - fees by term, budgeting, sacrificing savings, covering school fees wouldn’t theoretically be possible from only one of two salaries.

My parents could have got a big house but we lived in a tiny one. They also rarely bought themselves new clothes or ate out much. No sky tv in my house either 😂

Honestly, the average private school ideal parent would be one that’s out walking the dog and would have zero interest in having Sky

Wow ok that’s a totally different ballgame. Private school here is probably more similar priced to daycare (what you call nursery).

2 working parents on a reasonably good income can afford private school quite easily. Like 2 parents working in full time. Even single parents on a good wage like a nurse or teacher could afford it. Mortgaging houses and stuff wouldn’t happen, unless for the really too expensive ones. I don’t know the statistics but in my suburb / immediate area there are 2 big state high schools which would have about 2000ish students and there is 2 catholic high schools which would have maybe 800ish and then 3 other mid range private high schools that prob have about 600-800.

CuttingMeOpenthenHealingMeFine

But they are sacrifices if you can afford them and choose not to have them - that is just basic common sense. It’s like saying it wouldn’t be a sacrifice for the country to give up free healthcare because other countries don’t have it.

A sacrifice would surely be giving up a necessity. No car at all, for instance.

Holidays abroad and new cars are not necessities.

@Lillieloola why would you assume there was any pressure from me on my daughter?

Over the years I've begged her not to study as hard as she does and to go to bed at a reasonable hour instead of completing homework.

We looked at all of the 6th form options and she begged us to let her go to the small girls only option. She is determined to do four A-levels and has very clear career ambitions and knows that the time spent in very small classes with excellent teachers is best for her. As she has studied consistently hard since she was 2 years old every single day I felt it was a gift I wanted to make to her.
To my eyes the local state 6th form college looked way more fun, offered more subjects and in a beautiful campus in our local town where she would have mixed with her old primary school mates but no she really wanted the deluxe exclusive option.

Its true that there are many people who can’t afford these things, but surely you don’t believe that means nobody else should have them? That just brings this whole thing down to jealousy. Taking one child’s opportunities away will not improve another’s.

People have different income levels for many reasons. Surely the real issue should be making meaningful improvements on state education. The small amount of revenue from this scheme won’t achieve that- it will be lost in bureaucracy and educating those who move out of the independent sector.

Most private school parents do sacrifice having bugger families. Very few at our school have 3 children. We cannot have 3 children. Actually, most at our school are only children, or have 1 sibling.

Why do people keep saying state schools are great?
Well if they are why are they adding the tax to help these amazing schools? The reality is that some are and some aren’t so people should be able to choose without being punished with VAT for education. State schools are not an option for us. I would like to have a choice and not been punished by adding taxes. Even though there are people that have not choice there are many in state schools that are clearly not poor. I see several parents from great state schools and grammar with brand new cars and several holidays a year and expensive houses. So good on them. I am not judging or proposing they donate to the schools that are shit as they not paying school fees? However, I do think that is fairer this way. After all they are not paying for school fees and I am not using my places at state.
The policy is unfair. We would be taxed for not using state to an already taxed salary. Do you really think people prefer to pay £ 30.000 a year per kid if the state school caters for them? This is to appease resented people or the ones with dodgy ideologies about equality. By all means improve the state schools where needed but look for ways that make sense and raise money accordingly not with populist ideas.

Instead of talking about sacrifices. If we didn’t pay school fees we would be able to save money for old age, have better cars rather than the cheapest second hand.
Holidays abroad regularly.
Bigger house and or renovate the house we live in (our carpets are threadbare)
Buy new clothes instead of second hand.
Upgrade tech.

Most importantly I wouldn’t work and DH would be able to retire.

If we used the state schools we could do all of this. But we did use the state schools and had a very difficult time and our child was so unhappy.

My brother in law earns about the same amount and uses the state schools. Has three brand new cars, tonnes of money in the bank. Holidays abroad multiple times a year. Children always have the latest tech, new clothes and don’t understand the value of money.

It’s all about how you prioritise your income.

No that is not the definition of sacrifice, people cannot just change the meaning of words because they hate private school.

Agree with @DobbyTheHouseElk we are in a grammar area and the kids there are far more spoilt - new designer clothes, holidays, flashy cars, latest phones - things DD simply doesn't want or understand why people like them so much. Her peers don't value them at private school at any rate.

Reading this it’s like having a non shit car and the odd nice holiday is a moral failing! We’ve had an old second hand car for last 11 years telling ourselves “we are not car people” but finally got new one just 2 years old omg it’s amazing!

You've not been on the private school threads before, have you?
The idea is for the "rich" parents to have to show that they are real people because apparently we don't have feelings and don't know what "sacrifice" is.

My reply was in response to a poster saying they had gross income of £88k.

I’ve been on MN for almost 15 years - forever have I seen the suggestion that if only I drove an ‘old banger’ than I’d be able to afford private school.

Out of my circle of friends I have 3 whom choose to go private.

All three also have lots of holidays, live in large houses and live very comfortable lifestyles. Whilst I know they are not representative of everyone, the paid for schooling is one of many significant expenses for them.

We live in Guildford, lots of private schools here. With stories of kids going to school trips to palaces like Barbados to play cricket, and families hosting the end of school party in their house ‘grounds’ It would appear that many of those families can well afford the fees without much sacrifice.

Well obviously there are rich people like that in private school. However, the whole point is that the ones making sacrifices are the one that would be affected. Those rich families won’t. Also, can you see how much more expensive everything is since Covid and the war. 🙄

Yes, I completely see that the cost of everything, for everyone, has rocketed.

state schools have had absorb funding cuts for years - we are feeling and experiencing the consequences to that up and down the country, be it school estates in poor repair, lack of basic equipment etc.

There is no dictate that this change in policy must be immediately passed onto the parents / fee payers. This is a schools choice .

I don’t doubt this will impact some families. The private schools should have to cut their cloth in the same way state schools have done for years, if passing this extra cost onto the parents is so intolerable.

Yes @checkedcloth the old banger suggestion is perilously close to Rishi's assertion that his parents afforded Winchester by not having Sky back in the day.
And I agree. There is no guarantee that schools will pass on the whole 20 per cent to parents. If masses of families leaving is a real thread they should be looking at ways to cut costs. I'd be surprised if they haven't already figured out ways of doing this given they've had a year already to think about it so it's not being imposed overnight.