Okay… so what exactly are the sacrifices made for a private school eduction (feel free to scroll past if you don’t want to read another public school one 😉)

[vote4whoeveryouwant]

Yes, know another private school one. But I keep reading about people making huge sacrifices so their children can go to private school but I’d be genuinely interested to know what these are?

I earn pretty well but we only holiday alternate years, don’t have a car and haven’t done anything to our decrepit house for years simply because we don’t have enough leftover after outgoings and all the boring stuff.

My DD has dyslexia and we did look into private school for her as she really struggles but it no matter what way we tried to rework our finances there was no way we could make it work.

That’s a good point about choices.
driving an old car is a very average choice. And I also agree that unlikely people going hungry, it’s more about how many holidays they are going to and how often or staying in a smaller house.

I have two autistic children. One of them has a place at an independent mainstream school as a result of an EHCP so we don’t pay. The other won’t get an EHCP but will benefit from the same school so we plan to pay their fees.

We can’t go on holiday anyway and the children dislike change so we aren’t likely to change our cars or house anytime soon. If I am honest, we go without so much anyway because of their disabilities and have spent years paying privately for: SALT, sensory occ therapy, ed psych involvement, equine therapy, education outside of school, CBT and therapy for ARFID, play therapy etc that I’m hoping going to the right school means we can just change where our expenses go. Due to their disabilities, we have always gone without. The support for families with neurodivergent children is minimal and difficult to get, unless you pay privately anyway.

It varies depending on schools/families.

Sacrifices some make include :

Smaller house
Old cars (only changed when it’s basically scrap)
No holidays
No meals out
Some decide to have only 1 child
Not going on every school trip
2nd hand uniform/handing down clothes between families.
Parents both working full time (many families in state don’t)
Saving up before children are born/when they are very young

It’s possible to attend some private schools for around £1,000 per month. With sacrifices, a lot of families could achieve that.

Yes. And the poster who now lives in a 'dodgy' area? That just seems madness! Our kids went to local comprehensives and have done amazingly - mot going to bother listing their achievements, but I know that sending them to one of the many privates around us would have absolutely not made a difference. I'd rather be living where we are and having a little extra to have had nice family holidays and not had to work till I drop than 'sacrifice' (choose) to send them somewhere else.

I agree with the posters that say most of these things aren’t “sacrifices” in that many people go without them. If we weren’t paying school fees we might live in a bigger house (we have a terrace but it’s adequate for our needs) but we’d still drive an old car (neither of us is fussed about cars) and holiday in the UK (youngest is severely disabled so we need to drive to transport medical equipment and supplies).

What I have sacrificed is my time. I have always worked full time even when the children were little and have a high pressure job so often working evenings and weekends (DH does similar).

Yes exactly this.

As far as I know, maybe rules have changed, charities are exempt from paying VAT. If that is still the case then VAT cannot be collected from schools with charitable status. Like Eton and Winchester for instance.

@FuzzyStripes

Indeed. A baked in inequality that's failing thousands if children from mild sen to more severe sen and yet an issue rarely addressed at all.

This is why I can't get behind labours beating private schools with a stick at all.

Sleep?

We've just gone for moving for a state place (higher results than the independent we were considering and free) which has upped the mortgage. We work full time in jobs we love, but also have a side hustle plus we buy, renovate then sell the family home. We don't want DS to miss out on family time so it's all done when he's asleep or at school (we work shifts).

We traded down on holidays booking cheaper hotels vs this year where we have booked a truly 5* expensive holiday now the decision is made regarding school.

We also live in an area that wouldn't be our 1st choice as it's too urban.

Some are included some are extra. Our school charges less fees but we pay extra for EVERYTHING

I absolutely get it, I grew up very, very poor. What I don’t get however is why it is my problem or what I am expected to do about it? Give up my well paying job and join them? Your post makes no sense. People have always had different levels of income, why should people who can afford something not have it because others can’t? Where is the sense in that?

Exactly.

God hope these kids appreciate all this effort as adults! How bad must the state options be that this is necessary?! Where we live 4 out of 5 of the states are absolutely fine agree the fifth I would seek to avoid.

No sky TV 😔

But they are sacrifices if you can afford them and choose not to have them - that is just basic common sense. It’s like saying it wouldn’t be a sacrifice for the country to give up free healthcare because other countries don’t have it.

I don't regard these as "sacrifices" I just see them as evidence that we are not really more worthy of a targeted tax than other families of similar earning capacity who have made different priority decisions, comparing myself to various people of similar wealth who have said they aren't in a financial position to afford private schooling. Obviously there's a good 40% of the population who have to make these savings anyway just to live which is why I don't think it's right to describe them as "sacrifices', but there's also a huge demographic of families who have just made different choices rather than being fundamentally less wealthy.

(1) we never had any period (except for my 9 months of maternity leave) when we weren't both working full time. I don't resent families who can afford the luxury of a SAHP or one parent working part time to fit with school hours but in the families where each parent has the capacity to earn at least £30kpa the choice to forego that is a definite luxury.

(2) we live in a small house in a grotty area of town where the house prices are lowest (and the catchment schools most challenging). If we weren't forking out for private school we could have moved to a nicer house in a nicer part of town with an outstanding catchment school (would cost an extra £300k which we could have got the mortgage for if we weren't committed to school fees, and would have paid only 5% tax on that (in the form of stamp duty) rather than 20% and had an asset to keep afterwards.

(3) DC clothing mainly from charity shops and supermarket sale racks and handmedowns from family and friends with older kids. DH and I rarely buy new clothes and wear what we have until it's too tatty and worn to be seen (most items in my wardrobe are over 8 years old, I buy 2 or 3 new items per year at budget end, never spending much per item)

(4) we weren't abie to consider going to various family and friend weddings not all of which were "destination" weddings, some were in the UK but far enough away that it would mean 2 nights in a hotel we couldn't afford. I do somewhat begrudge the friend who said to me "but surely you'd be having a holiday anyway, can't you just make it there so you can get to the wedding" when the cost of getting just me there solo would have cost more than twice what we would spend on a holiday for the whole family. That friend certainly has very different expectations for a normal holiday budget.

(5) speaking of which, our annual family holiday is (a) every other year, one week of self catering somewhere in the UK that is unfashionable and therefore cheap, and (b) in the alternate years a week of "staycation" at home we do e.g family cycle trips and local attraction visits without any accommodation costs. Never done an all-inclusive or beach holiday. Never been skiing. We did have one more expensive holiday the year after FIL died and we'd had a small cash sum inheritance - the self catering holiday was in another country and about £300 more than our usual budget for the accommodation plus £300 paid for budget flights. That was a massive extravagance for us. My sister who earns more than me but "couldn't possibly afford private" meanwhile has family holidays at Florida Disneyland, Dubai and various amazing azure-sky and gorgeous beach locations.

(6) we don't have gym membership or do any regular classes that involve session fees. We don't allow ourselves any regular hobbies that would come with significant costs (there are plenty of hobby options that are low-cost or free)

(7) we have pretty crappy phones, always 2nd hand refubished at least 3 years old, and on cheap deals. Couldn't consider iPhones etc. Our TV is over 10 years old. We got a 2nd hand rather elderly playstation for £100 for DC. Very little other expenditure on electronic kit.

(8) we have one car between us. It's 12 years old. When it eventually dies we'll be buying something no newer than 4 years old, couldn't consider buyimg new.

I don't deny we are reasonably well off - our household income puts us at about 75th to 80th centile (ie 20% to 25% of households are richer than us)

Further cost cutting we don't have to make but which would be possible:

• We don't go too overboard on cost cutting our food budget. We do buy the nicer versions of things that are more expensive.

• We spend more than I think we should on streaming services. If we have to belt-tighten we will have to choose between them and just have one.

• We allow ourselves one takeaway a month and usually one restaurant meal per month unless money has been tighter than usual due to e.g. a car expense etc. We go to the cinema about 4 times a year on average.

So I reckon probably the wealthiest 30-40% of households could theoretically afford private schooling if they made different priority choices for their spending. I don't think they should have to. It would be better if all of the richest 30-40% of households were taxed a bit more so that all schools could be lifted up to the same kind of quality as a good (but not particularly luxurious) private school.

I knew this was the sort of answer this thread was going to attract - the ultra privileged thinking they are somehow deprived.

I have worked hard all my life.

could never afford a car, garden or flights, so excuse me if I laugh at your list of "sacrifices"

seriously, is this supposed to be ironic? Who thinks having a car that is 3 years old is a sacrifice? I don't know any one with a car that young, - actually many people I know can't afford a car at all

The absurd thing is that my children would otherwise go to the state secondary school that is considered one of the best in the country. Our private school doesn’t get results anywhere comparable. The state school is horrendous for neurodivergent children though so, for us, private is the only option apart from home education (and I don’t think that is the better choice for them).

Charities have always had to register and charge VAT if their income from non-exempt for VAT exceeds the threshold for registration. However most charity income is exempt for VAT so they don't meet the threshold to register. This means they also can't claim back VAT.

Currently private school fees are exempt from VAT so schools need to register for VAT. Labour propose changing the VAT status of the fees to make them standard rated which will make the schools income exceed the threshold and they will need to register. This means they'll also be able to reclaim VAT on purchases

Some of these are ridiculous. Only buying a car over 3 years old. Gasp! That would be a new car to me. I've never had one less than ten years old and I consider myself reasonably well off. Only one holiday a year - how dreadful. Most people only have one, or zero holidays per year!

To have 15k plus leftover after all living costs are paid for means you're on a pretty hefty salary to begin with.

It doesn’t matter what you sacrifice if you don’t have a certain household income. It’s like your prime minister saying he never had Sky (I’m in Ireland). I know a family who were on social welfare years ago and a friend of mine was saying how they were buying x, y or z quite often and yet they were always giving out that she (had a decent car, went on holidays l, didn’t offer to bring her on said holidays etc). There was two sides to it because the thing was the tiny amount they spent on the odd thing from a charity shop, or a take away all put together would not have come close to what she did. There’s savings and there’s more than that. They could never have afforded the holidays she went on even if they gave up eating and paying bills for a year!!!!And while my friend is an amazing saver, the money she has Isn’t because she has a jar she puts the odd euro into- she’s on a very good wage.

But on the other hand To them she was rich and they couldn’t understand that she didn’t pay for everything for them- but if she had she couldn’t have afforded her lifestyle- she wasn’t rich just in a really good position and a good saver!!! One group will never understand the other. Ever!!

I know its weird isn't it, it is hard to understand how people can be so rich and so ignorant

Not my definition of sacrifice. You're not going without, just doing things more cheaply. Most people have a car3+ years old and can't afford to go abroad .

Fundamentally the people who make sacrifices such on not doing home improvements and not buying new cars or having expensive holidays (ie, exactly what you do already OP) either earn significantly more than than you OP or have a tiny mortgage. This is why I find the whole narrative of private schools being affordable if you make sacrifices so insensitive. Half the UK working population earns less than 30k, there is no affordable sacrifice most people could make to send their kids to private school.

It depends on area I can see. Near me private school is in the £30k a year area (pre VAT) so an old car and “only” one holiday is not going to yield you the savings for a couple of kids.