Thread 4 - Michael Mosley

[Aquarius1234]

Body found and identified.

The focus of the media seems to have shifted to why the CCTV wasn't reviewed sooner.

The BBC sent a reporter, producer and a cameraman out there. They have to find something to talk about or come home.

I'm autistic. I think sometimes my brain needs to chew through things (particularly distressing things) to process and accept them. I wish I didn't need to do it but we are all wired differently.

2 days ago I read in the Independent that CCTV footage captured him falling and stumbling. Not sure if that's been redacted then?

@IdisagreeMrHochhauser the cctv footage is irrelevant really though isnt it. Would have made no difference to finding him alive.

He needed a good samaritan to spot him coming down that hill,

True.

It would have saved a hell of a lot of money with the search and rescue effort. None of that comes cheap.

It's unclear whether 'falling out of view' means 'disappearing out of view', but the medical reports say he had no injuries of a fall.

The media reports have always been full of incorrect wording on this, like "falling out of view" on cctv which got extrapolated to falling which is something totally different.
He didnt fall. It was natural causes, whereas a fall would be classified as an accident. But people misinterpret natural causes to think it meant it was all normal, of course it wasnt all normal, the heat and rough terrain will have brought it all on.

Would've prevented days of an expensive search and rescue effort no matter how ineffective it was. It would've prevented days of suffering for his family.

Why do posters whine on about this high profile case still being duscussd? The actions by the search teams need scrutiny. God forbid any one of us are in the same desperate situation and are reliant on the delayed viewing of footage or search dogs being stood down as it is unsurprisingly too hot in the afternoon instead of getting them out first light when it's cooler.

@Janiie The search went on 1 day too long maybe. It was only friday night they realised MM took the route to the mountains. Saturday yielded no result but early Sunday the discovery was made. Thats not bad going.

Think of all the CCTV in Pedi and the route back to Symi that needed to be reviewed. That takes so much time. Nobody expected MM to head the way he did - that's the kicker in all of this - to the authorities his route was completely illogical so it appears they focussed resources initially on looking at the more likely cctv footage. Saying that, after the discovery on Fri night that he'd attempted the mountain, youd have expected on Saturday they might have looked at the agia marina footage immediately as that was pretty much the only source of civilisation on that rocky peninsula.

To be honest though, and I'll be careful with the way I say this, they had no idea where he was, as he obviously didn't tell anyone where he was going or what his plans were and had no phone to contact anyone, or to try and pin point his location.. the only thing they had to go on was his last known location and his direction of travel. The family reported him missing on Wednesday evening, but the police didn't declare him missing until Thursday morning, assumptions were obviously then made that he was lost while making his way back to the accommodation when in fact he had gone the opposite direction entirely at the harbour.

At first they searched the path from the beach to Pedi, then when they received the CCTV from one of the establishments in Pedi, they started searching the hills behind the harbour (thinking he had gone that way to his accommodation), only when they received the cctv from the private individual showing him walking up the mountain path did they start searching the mountain, but they obviously didn't think he would have made it as far as he did.

Also think about the fact that the area is so large, the heat of the days have been absolutely immense.. and they can't search in the dark, the search teams were searching the commonly used path, and that side of the mountain, unbeknownst to them that he had gone off the path (for reasons unknown, maybe missed the path markers), and ended up going up and over the mountain and coming down on the opposite side of Agia Marina, he could have been intending on looping round to symi so there was the whole area to search, plus the caverns at the top, they just didn't know his intentions so couldn't rule any of it out.

It is really unfortunate set of events, but I do think the Agia Marina have a lot to answer for though, if they had taken the time to look at their own cctv sooner, or search their property perimeter they would have found him, but I don't think anyone expected him to have made it as far as he did.

I haven't read beyond your post.

But respectfully, @LefkaOri has made very sensitive and informative contributions to this whole tragedy.

They write beautifully. I suspect this has been misconstrued. You are way off with your Are you seriously trying to pat yourself on the back or point score?

After tonnes of thrill seekers contributions, picking on this is massively off.

Could you be any more uncultured, ignorant and disrespectful towards the Greek people if you tried? I’m glad that you don’t like the look of Symi as the locals most certainly wouldn’t be welcoming you.

Today, schools are closed. The acropolis is closed and medics have been deployed - at points - all over Athens.

Currently, (correct me if anyone has further news) a Dutch woman is missing on the island of Samos, and a man on the island of Amorgos. Both reported to have gone hiking.

It is fucking HOT in Greece. Anyone travelling here must be stupid to not understand this. Greece isn't known as some hellscape. But she has hot summers, and is a mediterranean country.

Expecting anything else, plus full 24 hour CCTV coverage on small islands, where its scoured over with fine tooth comb daily, is laughable.

There are some proper idiots commenting here.

You said nothing remotely offensive.

I understood you.

You write beautifully.

The chumps here criticising you could only aspire to do so - even in THEIR OWN language.

We can wish καλο ταχιδι to a remarkable man without seeking to lash out at others and the Greek emergency services.

'Expecting anything else, plus full 24 hour CCTV coverage on small islands, where its scoured over with fine tooth comb daily, is laughable.There are some proper idiots commenting here.'

Who is expecting '24hr cctv coverage' on smaller islands? What I do expect is the handful of cameras that they do have to have been looked at sooner like, erm ,thur? Rather than Sat. Still siestas and shops shut a lot apparently

Yes hun we know it's hot in Greece I think that's been mentioned. He obviously got lost I doubt he was expecting to end up near a 10 foot high perimeter fence.

I don’t believe that’s true - and it doesn’t tally with what the initial PM said. He was found in a position that suggested he sat/lay down with his feet upon a rock, like is advised if you feel faint. Then sadly passed away a short time after.

@ManifestoTweak I have lit a candle for the repose of his soul here in Chania.

it’s a very minor detail but as people as asking about the Ag. Marina boundary wall thing, it could be there for many reasons as stated - rock fall, wild animal ingress, cheeky goat incursions, but also, Greece fairly recently now has - hurrah - a formal, on line land registry. It helps delineate what is state land and what is private land, and all land has value , especially as tourism renders formally unproductive tracts valuable as tourist amenities. So people clearly fence their land, perhaps to indicate this bit is ‘mine’, and not the plot next door which Uncle Demetrios inherited form Grandpa, etc. You will come across sometimes quite random seeming areas of fencing around an empty plot because it is an owned piece of land, maybe someone will build a house on it one day, and for now it’s clearly someone’s and no one in the family, or the state, can pretend they didn’t know it was taken.

Also there is of course seismic activity in the Dodekanese and a strong wall can help with major rock fall going downhill and smashing into buildings, in cases of a tremor.

it’s just the most tragic case of bad luck that Dr M took a right rather than a left and ended up on the ‘blind’ side of a high wall.

That’s absolutely not what you said. I won’t repeat your comment because it was nasty, but it attributed blame. As I’m sure you well know, hubris has a specific meaning and associated ‘follow up terms’, and from your nasty post, it was clear that was what you were referring to.

I wish people would stop focusing on the fence. The beach (leading to the restaurant) was a few metres from where he died and he also could have accessed the restaurant from the other side. However, he didn't because by this time he was too weak and confused. He was literally minutes from death. The fence, though a frustration, was not what killed him. If there'd been a gate I'm pretty sure he would have gone in and still died around 4pm.

'Ignorance makes this place most inhospitable.'

You said there are proper idiots on this thread that isnt very hospitable. You also said expecting 24hr cctv is laughable I merely corrected you and said no, not 24hr cctv just someone to actually look at what was available promptly. Hope that helps.

Thank you for the feedback. I stand by what I wrote.

You simply are not capable of seeing that this poster meant zero offence and has explained their thinking in the beautiful and rich language that is Greek.

Your refusal to not see this nuance is your own ignorance. If you speak Greek, which i highly doubt you do, you would have not commented.

You should really stop calling people ignorant. It is a chat forum, that means adults share opinions and those opinions may well differ and that is ok The point is to debate without chuckng insults about. You say it's very hot where you are so perhaps this is making you tetchy?