Staying at a friends house - it’s filthy

[Wellthisisshitty]

We are driving across the country for a short trip and a friend who I’ve not seen in a few years asked if we’d like to come and stay to break up the journey there. Her husband is away for work for a few days, mine is at home working so it was a no brainer.

We used to live in the same area, both moved away a few years ago so I jumped at it. Thought it would be lovely to spend the day/night with her and her children, all same age as mine, older two went to school together when they were small.

We arrived an hour ago and I could cry. It’s like something out of those hoarders programs and it honestly smells like something has died in here. The smell hit me as soon as she opened the door and it got worse as I headed to the kitchen/bathroom. The sofas are encrusted with food/first and covered with clothes, food, toys. Flies everywhere, cat shit overflowing litter trays.

Shes given me and my toddler her room for the night, just put our bags up there and you can’t even walk to the bed. Shit all over the bed and the floor and god, the smell. Bathrooms are piled high. my other children are supposed to be sleeping in her children’s rooms but again, piled high.

I feel awful saying this, but I don’t know if I can stay here. She said she would cook, but I am standing in her kitchen and there is just mould on everything. I’m sticking taking us all out to a carvery on my credit card as a thank you, I can’t eat here.

I don’t care if I sound awful by the way. It’s not just a bit of dirt and mess.

@Serrina how do you know if they haven't had their water cut off, the pressure is gone, or arrears to the water company, that they arent in the midst of benefit changes ,mandatory reconsideration , clerical errors, overpayments , simple thing of someone not doing adequate paperwork on time, this they have missed a deadline for applying for a grant or something also, that person may not have family support ,single parent etc poverty and MH often go hand in hand, as someone In poverty will undoubtedly have MH issues and vice versa

@donteandolivia13 the water company cannot cut your water supply off even if you are in arrears. Its illegal. And food banks don't only provide food, the also provide soap and household essentials. In any case this doesn't apply to the people the OP is referring to because they are both doctors, they can afford to pay a cleaner but they dont. They're just nasty. Some people are just dirty and there's no reason behind it other than that.

Lol you clearly don't know what I know, and yes they bloody can, and not all foodbanks have all the damn essentials, do they?! My point was show compassion we are all fighting battles you we know nothing about

@donteandolivia13 clearly you don't know much 😆

"Can your water company disconnect your supply?If you are a domestic (non-business customer), water companies can't, by law, disconnect or restrict your water supply if you owe them money."
Source:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/water/problems-with-paying-your-water-bill/if-you-don-t-pay-your-water-bill/

Before you report them to SS, consider if you are friend enough/able to offer to help fix it.
I'm a serial clutterer and struggled more since our DS arrived.
I've often said if someone gave me an hour a week, I could make it much better....eg to look after child so I can clean, it's really tricky sometimes with a little.
We are not at the levels your friend has crept to, but its a fight. I hope your friend is willing and able to accept help wherever it comes from.

Just to be clear though, I think you need to do something fix it/help them fix it/report.

And of course you know for certain this couple don't have any health/mental/financial problems.
For example, one could be seriously ill/have a parent with a debilitating condition/sibling with a drug issue, anything could be going on, or maybe they just struggle with worklife balance.
Great compassion, I'm sure it will get returned to you someday.

Did I say they didn't? I said SOME people are just dirty. I didn't refer to any specific individuals. I suggest you re-read my post.

No, I’m not “friend enough” to fix it for them.

I live a hour and a half away. They have lots of family and friends much closer who could help if they needed it.

One of those close friends, our mutual friend, told me not to worry, they know they live in filth, always have done and they don’t care. They have lived like this since uni days, apparently. One of them grew up in a house just as bad. I just didn’t see it this when we lived near each other as they often had to move rentals (we all did, crappy London rental market), so it didn’t have time to build up.

It’s not up to me to fix it. They show their parents and other friends visiting regularly on Facebook. I’m sure if there were serious problems, they would step in.

Sorry took a long time to get back to MN. So to answer your various posts starting with this one - no, I don't think SW's training covers up to date research around attachment theory.

Research around attachment theory and psychological damage caused by neglect, physical or mental is within the field of psychiatry, which is a branch of medicine.

SW training is completely out of date in relation to this, was the point I was making. It is not science based training, and policies are based on out of date research. Doctors ime are far more likely to be aware of up to date research in any related field and will be able to distinguish between what is good science and what is fudged out of date theory based on out of date research. My main point here is that SW's training is not good enough.

It wasn't me making that error it was you - you were saying you were triggered about disadvantaged children living in shitholes and I said disadvantaged related to poverty and that that was a separate issue. I didn't say people in poverty were all dirty. I said you were mixing up issues which you were.

You obviously didn't see my post supporting a SW then. No I am not a conspiracy nut job, how ridiculous. I am supporting better research-based training and policies, and better practice and work conditions.

SW could be done a lot more effectively, to help break cycles of trauma.

Sorry to nitpick here but you said "they're just nasty".
Which is not a kind or empathetic thing to say.

Well you are wrong. It does. And many of them are trained to also deliver Solihull programmes. And are trained trauma informed practice and a whole host of other things.

I'm going on what OP has repeatedly said throughout the thread, they clearly don't have MH issues, they just don't care about cleanliness.

I am not sure you have read most of what other people have posted properly, but in any event, in relation to just attachment theory - which I don't think is relevant to the thread but you have mentioned it - if you have the time and inclination I would be interested to know what your understanding of attachment theory is and how you think SWs correctly understand it and apply it.

By the way, you asked a question about my brother's house - if you read the post again it is all there, and you will also see that all his children are now adults

@Calliopespa That is a very insightful point. I have this type of discussion with my aforementioned acquaintance quite often. She sometimes says things such as 'I know, It's just my head!' for example when I say to her that (for example) she doesn't have to throw bread away that she accidentally left in her car boot after shopping yesterday, it will not harm her if she eats it.

I am not a medical professional but I understand that unless the VERY unlikely event of an unknown bacteria is growing in the realms of her car boot has occurred, the bread is no dirtier than if she'd put it in her cupboard and stomach juices would kill most 'dirt'.

She doesn't know that. In her more simple way of thinking, car boots are dirtier than cupboards therefore the bread will be dirty and you can't eat dirty things. If she thinks about it properly she knows I am right but her 'programming' means she'll throw the bread in the bin or give it to me as I'll quite happily consume it .

I do think you're probably right. And my house is very much like the one you describe! 'Stuff to do with stuff' everywhere because I read books, magazines, papers. My writing is everywhere. Plants and seedlings, ornaments that are remnants of my past follies, ingredients for cooking new recipes, folders and paperwork from businesses I run and my actual work.

Her house has next to nothing because her only interests are 'immediate' ones. No 'clutter' at all just clothes including work uniform, food (the type that you just warm up and eat, no interest in cooking) and other necessities.
I love her to bits by the way, I am not saying either way is 'wrong' and her space is a lot more organised than mine, but yes as you say, It's because there's nothing really in it!

Sorry I just meant to say also that the Solihull Approach is all about relationships, about how much damage can be done if there are ruptures to relationships, which is what half of us were trying to explain to you, that the mess and dirt is just one factor and not the dominant factor where relationships and care is otherwise good (imho).

The whole basis of Solihull is about ensuring good attachments- you previously said Social Workers are not trained in attachment theory. I am saying this is absolutely not the case.
And at no point have I said the children should be removed thus breaking any attachment!! Just that the parents need to get the house sorted!! and SW should be ensuring this happens.

You seem to be thinking SW should prioritise maintaining attachments over all else. Of course the bond between parent and child is hugely important, including from brain development, and there is likely to be permanent damage is this attachment is interrupted or broken, but in many cases it is far more complex than this, for example if the child is at actual physical or mental risk from other things- no matter how good the attachment may be.

There was no man in the house 🤣🤣🤣 well, apart from my husband who was working.

Purely telling a story based on the facts at the time 🤷‍♀️ you have decided to put in a load of cloak and dagger assumptions and suspected view points of mine.

No halo polishing, I’m clean and tidy as is my husband - our ethos is very different to some - I haven’t stated anywhere that I believe one to be right or wrong.

It’s really quite a simple anecdote, no need for all the hand wringing, assumptions and getting yourself as worked up as you seem to have done.

I think you seem to have a lowered sense of how central a sense of security and love is for a child and a heightened sense of just how damaging a messy house can really be in the absence of other aspects of neglect. Obviously this can be something that attends a generally neglectful environment; however if a child’s relationships are secure, attentive and loving, I don’t think mh or other issues stemming from being chased by a fearsome mouldy teacup are particularly acute.

I don’t think there is any suggestion the friend is serving food on the plates in that condition; and children encounter animal poo at parks all the time.

Peer relationships are also hugely important. Children don't want to grow up feeling different to their friends, they want to be able to have friends visit and not be embarrassed. They also should have somewhere suitable to sleep and do their homework. No matter how strong a relationship may be with a parent they are still being harmed to some degree by not having suitable home living conditions and I 100% stand by my point it is not fair on the children and needs to be addressed.

But children are harmed ( slightly) by so many things in so many ways. By the fear that granny has something they overheard mummy and daddy talking about and may die soon. By the fact that Jenny at school said their ears stick out and they will be forever ugly. By the fact they are rubbish at maths. By the fact they picked their school shoes up and accidentally touched the bottom of them when changing after games and got a tummy bug. And children will feel different for hundreds or reasons: bright ginger hair, or a lisp, or a dad who collects cacti. Sometimes feeling different is character building.

I’m not suggesting a messy house is in any way ideal but there are levels. The cat litter tray was not changed regularly ( lots of people with cats are like this btw), but was the bedding? Did they shower regularly? Were their clothes clean? ( and op has said yes). Were they healthily fed? And they did have friends round - it’s how the post started. If they don’t again, it will be more due to people commenting than anything.

Im not suggesting houses ought to be messy; I’m not suggesting that conditions cannot be poor as a corollary of an abusive or neglectful environment. I just think some of us - realising that all parents slip up somewhere, whether it be taking sufficient interest in nursery art work ( I was “ traumatised” by my mum always binning mine but I’ve lived to laugh at it as an adult and even feel tempted myself as a mum) - feel that perhaps the trauma of having as swoop in because mummy hadn’t done the washing up and was playing on the slide instead is more traumatic and unsettling for the child than anything else. It’s worth considering the point.

I suggest you read it again too. Have a great day