Staying at a friends house - it’s filthy

[Wellthisisshitty]

We are driving across the country for a short trip and a friend who I’ve not seen in a few years asked if we’d like to come and stay to break up the journey there. Her husband is away for work for a few days, mine is at home working so it was a no brainer.

We used to live in the same area, both moved away a few years ago so I jumped at it. Thought it would be lovely to spend the day/night with her and her children, all same age as mine, older two went to school together when they were small.

We arrived an hour ago and I could cry. It’s like something out of those hoarders programs and it honestly smells like something has died in here. The smell hit me as soon as she opened the door and it got worse as I headed to the kitchen/bathroom. The sofas are encrusted with food/first and covered with clothes, food, toys. Flies everywhere, cat shit overflowing litter trays.

Shes given me and my toddler her room for the night, just put our bags up there and you can’t even walk to the bed. Shit all over the bed and the floor and god, the smell. Bathrooms are piled high. my other children are supposed to be sleeping in her children’s rooms but again, piled high.

I feel awful saying this, but I don’t know if I can stay here. She said she would cook, but I am standing in her kitchen and there is just mould on everything. I’m sticking taking us all out to a carvery on my credit card as a thank you, I can’t eat here.

I don’t care if I sound awful by the way. It’s not just a bit of dirt and mess.

Hello op,

Ive read all of your posts and about 1/3 of the others. I’m sure that someone has probably already made this point but…

Hoarding is a MH condition. My MiL was a hoarder with a home that sounds exactly like the one you’ve described. Contrary to what people thought; she did not want help to sort the house out. When my husband and I tried to clean it for her, she actually got very upset with us. She completely neglected my husband and the rest of her children (we started dating in school, so I got to see first hand) and they had nothing. My husband was particularly affected by the mess and the neglect and even now as a middle aged man, he does not hold fond memories of his childhood.

She was also a highly educated individual, either masters or PHD level, I cannot remember. There is no helping these people practically, we just aren’t qualified. But, the children do need help. This is a terrible way to live.

Someone with genuine hoarding disorder (as opposed to not chucking stuff away more generally) can not be helped until they recognize there is a problem, and want to be helped. Even then the exact how needs to come from them generally.

(If you've used 'see all' the Op has more posts not viewable via it.)

Hoarding doesn't automatically equate to filthy, (though it can get there easily enough) but it's very unusual to have a hoarding situation with children, where the parent actively invites friends and their children in to hang out and stay in it all, while laughing about the joys of not bothering about housework and enjoying 'living like pigs*' and all the children's other needs apart from the filth and clutter, are being perfectly well met.

This could be a very unusual profile hoarding situation but there's a lot to suggest it's as the parent themselves is saying, 'a can't be arsed, we have better things to do situation.'

I do agree to a point. My MiL was definitely a filthy hoarder. A ceiling full of flies and cat poop everywhere because the litter boxes hadn’t been changed in weeks. If the animals peed on the carpet or sofa, it would be left ignored to dry. My husband as a child had a bed that had never ever had a sheet or been changed.

My Mil often had people around. It was an open house. She did not recognise how disgusting it was.

The op’s friend may also be making a more conscious effort to present well in public, but the house has not been described as suitable for living in by the op.

Shelter, and a comfortable place to sleep is a pretty fundamental basic need for children. Then a feeling of safety and security. This home doesn’t sound safe.

My mil loved her children, I have no doubt about that. But she was a rubbish parent, although I think she believes she was a good one. Rubbish parents need to be told to do better.

I did use ‘see all’ so I’ll have to go back through and check for more details, thank you!

Who do you think you are, talking to me like that? I asked you for research, in a perfectly civil post. Your behaviour on this thread is bizarre.

Anyway, to explain to you again, in a civil way - SW training is not science based, not based on up to date child development research, unless things have changed you barely touch child development/pschiatry/psychology, whereas this area is within medicine - a doctor is far more likely to be aware of up to date research ie having to keep up to date than a SW. Doctor = science based training. SW = a mush of sociological type study based training (unless things have changed recently).

You aren't a SW, are you?

I agree with you, I think it is a really difficult job, it is very difficult to know what to take forward, whether you can rely on your judgement, and the consequences once the ball starts rolling. I do agree with you with you very much that dedicated SWs can feel damned if you do and damned if you don't. But this is related to the point I was making in a different post about SW training - the whole of SW practice needs a major overhaul - training, resources, practice. It should be split in relation to child protection, into two areas - one for cases where advice and support is needed, and help with finances, which are numerous, and ther other for serious cases where there is violence, significant neglect, sexual abuse etc, so that SWs are working on either one thing or the other. Much better training is needed. Same SW should not be working on both areas - too much stress, different skills needed for the different areas and if you are working on serious cases, much better support systems in place. Case load in some areas sounds diabolical.

I think this poster is triggered: her posts have been very heated and I’ve stopped responding directly because I think it’s either a case of having been affected by a disorganised home, or knowing someone with one whom she wants very much to condemn.

It's right there in your post that she - a woman - was having 'a lovely old time' and you then follow that up with the fact that you - presumably also a woman - couldn't do that if your house was messy. The judgement and halo-polishing is right there in your post. And although you didn't make it explicit that you were judging her as a woman for not being on top of her house, yes I do think there's a whiff of it in your post as you're comparing what another woman did with what you 'couldn't' do.

If you would genuinely judge a man as harshly for enjoying himself while his house was a mess, I will stand corrected (although I still think judging someone for having a messy home is a bit shit regardless of their gender). I just find it difficult to believe.

I'm unsure why you think you are funny.

I am not triggered because I grew up in a messy home. I am triggered because I work with families in one of the most disadvantaged areas ok the UK and have seen the long term impact of children being brought up in filthy homes. And I am incredibly insulted by the comments that a medical doctor some how knows better than the people who work with families who actually live like this on a daily basis!!! And for the record I am educated to masters level in a degree that is as sought after as medicine! I am not some kind of simpleton that doesn’t understand about microbiomes and germs being good for children or some other justification of leaving kids to live in a hovel!

There is no research- medical/ psychological or sociological that says leaving children to live in a shithole rather than interventions being put in place. None.

Well then you do have an agenda. That’s how it’s coming across .

An agenda?? How about learned experience? And exasperation that anyone would try and justify child neglect?

Tell her youve had an emergency and need to leave. I would stay there with your kids!

OMG! I’d get out of there and call social services for her kids too.

It is to do with interpreting the research - I listed what I understood to be the most important factors in childhood according to current research, which is to do with the relationship with the parent - not to do with living conditions. And I put it in context too - sometimes the environment will be more significant than at other times.

Going in all guns blazing wanting to judge and "investigate" is not necessarily the best way of helping the children involved.

I would like to know what your highly sought after degree is, though you don't have to tell me.

Wellthisisshitty had to make a new account after log in issues, so appears unhighlighted as Wellthisisshitty2 some point after their last highlighted post if that helps.

I'm assuming that your DH's experience of his mother feeling happy to invite people into a properly filthy home with resident children clearly living in it, was somewhere between 25-40 years back when children were far more considered parents property and hoarding itself was both less understood by many, as well as tidy post war generation hoarding still being quite common.

I could be wrong but anecdotally I think you will find these days parents are all too aware that hoarding of all types attracts SS, let alone downright filth.

There's a lot more awareness of how it affects children, and as you said Mil 'completely neglected her children and they had nothing' even if she did love him, rather than this rather strange situation of being apparently aware and meeting most needs but surrounded by filth and laughing about it.

I'm in no way disagreeing with you about the state of the home, whatever the cause, being adverse for children's development especially as they become more self aware.

"I am triggered because I work with families in one of the most disadvantaged areas ok the UK and have seen the long term impact of children being brought up in filthy homes."

Two different things here - disadvantaged area means poverty - this thread is not about poverty. What is hurting the children you see in a disadvantaged area is going to be more to do with poverty than mess.

If we were talking about changing the environment for all children including those in disadvantaged areas - providing better houses, play areas, libraries and more - then I would have been with you all the way.

Crikey. I'm not sure what more needs to be said. The OP has said that her friend is aware her house is a dump and simply does not care! I honestly don't think it's a MH condition or a problem if she can laugh about it and not care.

Do you honestly think social workers aren’t trained in attachment theory?? Really!

Again wrong. You can be in poverty and keep a clean and tidy home. I have seen both poverty and filthy houses that have nothing to do with lack of money. Regardless of the reasons why a home is in the condition it is the impact on the children is the same and it is neglect.

But it's not just "a little bit of dirt" it's absolute filth and yes it can harm you. Dogs lick their privates, do you really think its OK for a child to be eating off a plate a dog has licked after doing that? You can pick up some nasty illnesses from that. And the OP has already said there's faeces everywhere. How can you not see the obvious health risk?
Years ago I knew someone who's child was always being admitted to hospital with infections due to the level of filth in the house. SS visited and told her she had to start practicing basic hygiene in the home. She didn't listen. Her child was eventually removed.
Being "clean and fed" isn't enough especially if they're having to eat contaminated food because it's being stored and prepared in unsanitary conditions.

I would be astonished if doctors know much about child development. They study the body, medicine and illness, not mental health. Most doctors seem to be woefully ignorant about mental health in general. Any doctors reading this, please let us know if you have in depth and up to date training in child development. Many doctors seem to know next to nothing about menopause, and that is a health issue, so if they are very knowledgable about child development that would be strange. When I say child development I mean attachment theory and psychological damage caused by neglect, physical or mental.

Oh goodness. I’m glad you managed to make an excuse and find an ‘out’….

My friend used to be like this, when I cat sat for her when they were away I used to bleach all the surfaces and spray the oven top and leave it soaking, bleached the tea stained porcelain sink etc….

she was so grateful to me and said she was so overwhelmed and didn’t know where to start/couldn’t get motivated… now the kids are young adults her house is spotless….

I think at some stages of life people just get overwhelmed and simply can’t get motivated once it all builds up… shocked she’s invited people to stay over though.. I’d feel embarrassed ..

I wouldn’t bring it up with my friend though unless you are 100% sure it won’t cause offence

Some people just don’t see it at all.

eating out of dirty plates, sleeping in a messy bedroom, cat hair everywhere, dogs licking dishes off the sideboard etc - not because of neglect but because their parent thought it was not important. I met parents in our school who's houses are a tip - mud everywhere, clutter, dogs, etc.

I’m sure a lot of this is normal for a lot of people 🤮which is another reason why I don’t like eating from peoples homes who have pets unless I know them well and familiar with their habits. Even if your house is otherwise clean I’m not sharing dishes with a dog.

I think people in the working class community I grew up were just very house proud so most of the above wasn’t something you seen but I can definitely imagine it’s more common that people might think.