Is this normal for a 10 year old boy?

[Lawcruncher]

Recently my 10 year old (year 5) nephew ‘B’ came to stay with us. I don’t get to see him often due to distance and was really looking forward to this trip. It was easter holidays, his mum had a routine hospital visit and my brother (his dad) had to work, so I was glad to help out by looking after him for a few days. The experience has left me concerned for his wellbeing, and I am not sure what to do. I feel like I should speak to my brother, but I am worried about causing a family rift. I would appreciate any feedback, positive or negative, as currently I feel very conflicted.

I could write so much more here about all the things that concerned me but I’m not sure people would want to read all that, so I will summarise as best I can.
He arrived in tears because his ipad had run out of battery on the car journey. That was my brothers fault because he didn’t remind him to charge it. In the instructions for looking after him I was told that he is only allowed to play on his ipad between 7am and 8pm. His bedtime is 8pm and he is allowed to watch 1 DVD in bed, to help him fall asleep. He sleeps with the light on all night as he doesn’t like the dark.

He needs to be supervised brushing his teeth and using the toilet before bed, otherwise he won’t do it but will say he has. If he doesn’t use the toilet before bed he will wet the bed. He needs help dressing appropriately in the morning. He doesn’t shower, and his mum baths him once a week. He doesn’t use deo and is quite smelly most of the time.

He cannot use a knife and fork. I don’t mean that he is bad with them, I literally mean he cannot use them. At breakfast he was unable to butter his toast. He just didn’t know how to hold the knife and even when shown, just could not do it. He also doesn’t use a fork, preferring a spoon or his fingers.

At lunch in a café he burst into tears when his jacket potato with cheese arrived with salad. He had read the menu and ordered himself, but not realise it would come with salad. That was my fault for not explaining it. After pushing all the salad off the plate (he did use his knife for that) he requested a spoon and proceeded to eat the potato using a spoon and his fingers. He was pushing potato with his fingers onto his spoon, and picking up dropped potato with his fingers. It was embarrassing.

That evening I made steak, chips, mushrooms and peas. B wouldn’t eat the mushrooms or peas, ate the chips with fingers and, after I had to cut it for him, ate the steak pieces with a spoon, using his fingers to push the pieces on. At mealtimes we tried to engage in conversation but all he could talk about was fortnite. At home he eats his meals on his own, on a tray in front of the TV. His standard meal is jacket potato with cheese, but sometimes he has a ham and cheese wrap. His parents eat after he has gone to bed. Even on a weekend, he eats separately in front of the TV.

All B wanted to do all day was sit in his room and play on his ipad, or sit in the living room and watch TV. It turned out that is all he does at home, and we had more tears and tantrums when I wouldn’t let him do that all day. He doesn’t participate in any activities (clubs, sports etc..), or have any friends. He can’t swim, ride a bike, kick a ball or tie shoe laces. He doesn’t read books. He is very overweight and did not want to play at the park I took him to. He would burst into tears at the drop of a hat, and everything is always someone else’s fault. His diet is very limited and does not include salad or vegetables unless you count potato. He likes to snack on crisps and full fat coke and had a full-on meltdown when he learned that we don’t have crisps in the house and only had coke zero, demanding that we go to the supermarket to buy them (we didn’t).

When my brother collected him at the end of the visit I mentioned what it had been like and he just dismissed it with ‘yeah, that’s what 10 year old boys are like!’ and didn’t seem bothered in the slightest.

I know other people with kids similar ages and have not seen anything like this. It was almost like watching a 2/3 year old toddler in a 10 year olds body. We have 2 girls of our own, both at Uni now, and by the time they were 6 or 7 they were fully capable of eating a meal using cutlery, and could tie shoe laces. They didn’t burst into tears at the smallest thing, and were socially able. They had friends, played outside and participated in sports/clubs. By age 10 they were so much more capable and independent then B is.

So is this normal for a 10 year old boy? Am I right or wrong to be concerned? Should I say something to his parents?

It could absolutely be lazy parenting as others have suggested, and an addiction to the iPad that's not being managed and him unhappy that it's been cut off with the battery, and not bathing him often enough.

could also be some neurodivergence there too, sensory issues around the shower, fussiness with food... ultimately unless your brother is willing to see this isn't normal 10 year old boy behaviour, nothing will happen. If there is some known neurodiversity there your brother really ought to let you know how best to handle things if they kick up.

https://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/A-generation-at-risk-rebalancing-education-in-the-post-pandemic-era-1.pdf

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10643-022-01405-3#Sec30

Here some of the studies on Covid children. Teachers and SLT and governors have been observing this for years. More and more studies will emerge.

None of us want to think of our own children as “Covid children”. Most people are in denial. Kids with books at home and bicycles/gardens/sporty parents and good food are even better off relatively speaking than those without, of course. The social & emotional gap has widened further due to the pandemic.

@coxesorangepippin the parents are not using ASD as an excuse, the dad has clearly described his sons behaviour as normal.

You don't get a diagnosis of ASD as a result of poor lazy parenting.

I think it sounds more like a parenting issue from your update more than anything.

However one reason it takes so long for many children with additional needs to get diagnosed is because the parents also have the condition and don't see the child's behaviour as unusual so that could potentially be at play.

However, in terms of doing something about it, it's not severe enough for any level of outside agency involvement other than school / GPs signposting to children's health and well being sessions etc but the parents would have to support this and the child would have to want to go.

The only other thing you could do is offer to have him for an extended time over the summer holidays and model more positive behaviours and get some cultural capital in but he's got to want to go.

OP I have read your update. This is difficult to broach because clearly the parents are struggling themselves and enabling your DN. He may have some additional needs as already stated or he may not. Only an expert would be able to tell. Unfortunately children feed off their parents struggles/mental health issues. I think a gentle conversation around how they could become a little more active as a family and eat better is the way to start. It would be better for them to eat as a family and still read to your nephew. Small steps and suggestions is the way to go, I think, in a gentle manner. Most parents who are failing their own children very much know it deep down but it is a very sensitive topic especially if they actually really love him (which it sounds like they do).

I’ve never met a 10 yr old like this, poor kid. Absolutely piss poor parenting.

My first thought would be possible dyspraxia and ASD, I have a ds with both and a lot of this rings bells.

This is not typical behaviour OP, but you already know that.

I understand you don't want to medicalise things and some of it is down to the parenting, but I also see similarities to my child with asd. I do think your DN needs to be assessed professionally.

The fact that he needs to be reminded to go to the loo before bed (or he will wet it) is one thing that might indicate sensory issues. Most kids this age have outgrown wetting the bed and will feel the urge to use the toilet if they need it.

Again, I absolutely think he needs help OP and suspect it's not all down to parenting. The parents need help too. When your child has additional needs it's very easy to take the path of least resistance to avoid the issues with anxiety which are so very common in asd. In ways it's quite different to parenting a typically developing child and it seems things have gone wrong here.

I have a 10 year old DS and I can relate to a couple of things - struggling to tie his shoe laces and having to be reminded to clean his teeth. He also struggles with cutlery but not to the extent he eats with his fingers. Everything else, not really.

Also if your DB and SIL don't have other children they're less likely to see typical behaviours and less likely to realise their DS may have additional needs. My own DC's issues were made clearer as their younger sibling developed.

Doesn’t sound like any 10yr old I know.

They might need a reminder ‘have you brushed your teeth yet?’ Otherwise the rest is totally alien to what I know.

Mine, and their friends all: dress, shower, wash, tie shoe laces, toilet independently. They read, play games, watch screens when allowed, interact with adults competently and make decent polite chit chat when needed. They eat a fairly wide range of food (not huge adventurous but broad enough and polite enough to eat what they were given when needed) use cutlery, know to wait before they start eating, use a napkin etc.

I would echo your concern.

I suppose it comes down to which do you value more: your relationship with DB & DSIL, or your quiet conscience for trying to do something about your neglected and miserable DN.

I rather doubt from your description of the parents that your intervention would meet with much success. The parents are over weight themselves, they are unlikely to perceive his physical state as a problem, because that would mean they had to acknowledge and possibly address their own issues. Your SIL would argue that she loves her son (doesn’t explain why he has to eat on his own though) and I think will probably react badly to a perceived criticism.

What can anyone do, really? We are all so desperate not imply that other peoples’ behaviour may be troubling or inappropriate, that the mechanisms for ensuring a child in this situation has some alternative prospects are pretty much defunct.

I respect your concern, though.

That isn't normal for a six year old, never mind a ten year old.

He sounds like he might have ASD traits. Which is indeed very normal now.

Screen addiction, whilst not healthy, is normal. Parents can do more to stop it's adverse effects. Sending them to clubs and enforcing a limit of 2 hours a day would be healthy by my 10yo gets more than 2 hours in the holidays.

Not eating with cutlery is not normal but TBH my 10yo eats with his hands if we don't correct him. He also stands up and capers around at meal times. We tell him to sit down.

I think the lack of personal hygiene is also normal. My ds has to be watched to make him brush his teeth and shower. I've known my friends dd swear she'd brushed her teeth, even rub some toothpaste in her mouth and wet the brush to pretend she'd done it. My ds wets his towel and his hair and tried to pretend he's been in the shower.

Fussy eating and snacking on crap is normal judging by my sons peers.

My ds bursts into tears and blames others. We are having him assessed for ASD.

yiur DN is not going to change unless his parents deal with him.

Not normal having seen several of my nephews grow up (I have a girl who could do all the independent things you mention by 3 or 4).

It is normal if the parenting is incredibly lazy however. I've seen a friends boys behave a bit like this in terms of only talking about games, addicted to iPads etc but my friends parenting style is totally hands off, b as by sat by an iPad from as soon as they can watch a screen.

I'm not sure it's worth saying anything though because if your brother and his partner haven't bothered parenting in 10 years they're unlikely to 1) understand what they're doing isn't parenting and 2) change.

It must be upsetting to see this poor child 'parented' this way but this has become a bit of a norm these days I think and many on here whose own boys are similar will defend it. But this is what you get when you allow a child virtually unlimited access to screens and a poor diet. It's easy parenting, it's lazy parenting but really it's not parenting.

I recognise some issues I had with my autistic son who also has LD. No I am not using autism as an excuse my other children were top of ability range and picked skills up quickly. I have never known a NT boy who would not have enjoyed the park so I think Sen / sensory issues / problems with change are very likely explanations. If you’ve never had to teach a child who doesn’t just learn by copying and needs every skill broken down and taught with vast amount of repetition to achieve progress then you can’t really comment on the parenting. I’ve needed expert advice to know how to teach my child with LD. I’ve always been really grateful my other children were older and well behaved / very able so I never had my parenting blamed when I had a child who struggled with learning basic skills. He sounds like a child who hasn’t had their Sen recognised. Demand avoidance, anxiety, dysregulation, food issues, lack play skills, poor motor skills, better at maths than language - what part of this doesn’t sound like autism or similar Sen?

If you’ve never had to teach a child who doesn’t just learn by copying and needs every skill broken down and taught with vast amount of repetition to achieve progress then you can’t really comment on the parenting.
Absolutely agree with this. People often don't realise how different it is if your child doesn't just 'pick up' a skill as typically developing children do. And a child can be academically very bright and still have these issues. Add anxiety into the mix and it's very challenging.

He sounds like a child who hasn’t had their Sen recognised.
And this. Almost certainly imho.
He needs professional assessment.

11yo DS plus two teenage DDs here and that description is not normal (beyond the only topic of conversation being the favourite computer game). It sounds like a much younger child.

I don't know how best to approach it though. Maybe suggest you think his development is a bit behind and that it might be a good idea to get him checked by the GP? I'm sure there is a parenting impact but sounds like it's not ideal but 'good enough' so I think all you can do is try and be a bit more involved and couch it as 'I know you two don't get much time together so how about I take DN out for the day so you can have some adult time'. Are your daughters local, what is his relationship with them like or is the age gap too big to have much of one? Maybe spending time with them might help him as well to expand his boundaries.

But this is what you get when you allow a child virtually unlimited access to screens

My 11yo is on screens a lot, we restrict at weekends but after school and after school activities 4 times a week he does get unlimited access till bedtime. I still think none of the behaviour described by @Lawcruncher is typical. There's definitely more than just screen access going on.

Agree that diet has an impact though, my Mum taught home economics and always got the Y7s to keep a food diary, she said how good the diet was was directly correlated to how good their behaviour at school was.

I have two sons older than that and none of them were like this at 10, or really any age. I think there is more going on.
Wanting to go on the ipad/computer a lot is very normal though.
The inability to use a knife/fork, not being able to ride a bike etc. - that would indicate to me that there might be something else to consider.
The teeth cleaning not necessarily - they can be lazy and don't always see the importance until later on.

I don't think is normal at all. Have 3 children, youngest nearly 11 now.
It's actually scary to read that.
The worse part is that your brother think this is the norm. It's not.
I have no idea how he is going to develop as an adult.

?????

Right answer.

By 10 years old many boys will have gone away on school residential or scout camps, they need to be able to wash, dress and feed themselves as well as help out with making meals and cleaning rooms. That should demonstrate what is considered average development by that age.

Him not being able to use cutlery or get himself bathed and dressed indicates problems.

Leaving a child to eat by himself 7 days a week is cruel.
Not being able to shower himself is unusual at age ten.
His mum having to bathe him is very unusual …ten year olds usually begin to want privacy and try to manage personal hygiene tasks alone.
Only bathing once a week is unusual and it’s cruel to allow him to not to be fresh the other six days.
Not being able to clean his teeth properly and independently is unusual.

Not being able to dress himself is unusual.
Not being able to or wanting to use a knife and fork without fingers is unusual.
Having no social skills or friends at age ten is unusual.
Not being able to regulate his emotions at all when he is disappointed or if things go a little bit wrong is unusual.
Some ten year olds do have a very limited diet.

Either this child has been neglected (lazy or busy parents with no time for him) and pretty much left to bring himself up or he has special needs. Or a bit of both maybe.

Your brother is wrong to dismissively say this is what all ten year old boys are like.
On the contrary, his personal, social and emotional development appears to be delayed as are his motor skills and it seems he is even becoming reclusive. The danger is that he will be unable to take on the teen years with confidence. And then fail to launch himself into the next stage after compulsory education finishes.

I would say your nephew definitely needs help and I hope his parents wake up and see a better way forward for him.