Thread 44 Sunak: Hung parliament and Rishful thinking.

[DuncinToffee]

prevoius thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5066068-thread-43-sunak-seriously-scapegoating?page=40&reply=135107360

Also, unless I missed it, there is no timing given for the apology. It's entirely possible it was made yesterday but somehow got "forgotten" in the excitement.

Remember who runs the news.

I said to DH this morning that I think it is only existing Labour supporters/members like us who are worried about NE joining Labour, the headline that people who are non Labour supporters will take from it is another defection to Labour. Most people wouldn’t even know who she was or her history.

Don't be surprised to see one defection per week until a VONC is a given. Wouldn't take many weeks, certainly fewer than waiting until January.

On a similar theme, I think it was HIGNFY that did some quick maths that if Liz Truss lived to be 80, she'd have spent more days at the Cenotaph than in office

I'm not thrilled about Elphicke, but I agree with those who point out that she's standing down anyway and the embarrassment to Sunak is probably worth the revulsion of putting up with her for a few months. And anyone who still thinks Starmer's Labour is recognisably left wing hasn't been paying attention. They're better than the Tories, that's the best that can be said for them. I'll be voting Labour, but here's a cat picture to encapsulate how I feel about it.

I understand pragmatism

NE will be a labour MP for a matter of weeks (hopefully)

Still makes me feel a bit 🤢 though

A line I have never forgotten from a book of yesteryear is "The Crystal Cave" where Ambrosius explains to Merlin that while he knows the tutor he has assigned him is a closet Mithranian (sp ? and a Bad Thing) he is a damn good tutor:

I can't afford to throw away good tools because I don't like their design

Maybe some here can make peace with it if they remember that wording ? That specific wording ?

has been interesting reading the different viewpoints on NE, when I first heard about yesterday felt a bit wtf & slightly queasy she doesn’t come across as a particularly nice human being, I’m now going with hopefully Starmer has his reasons & the above quote resonated with me.

I think it's likely going to be hard to tell how left wing they are in any case with all the work that Labour are going to have to do in their first time should they win one. Reversing 14 years of shit.

Has anyone seen Penny Mordaunt’s bizarre performance in the Commons this afternoon 😳https://x.com/patrickhanrahan/status/1788597751132905486?s=61&t=xKCXjKa1-S6Ks0nSd_LXGg

Well that's ... Something. I'm not sure what.

A very reasonable reasoning I think.

From Russ Jones (The Week In Tory) on Xwitter.

I've sat with this for 24 hours, and for what it's worth, here's what I think is the strategy behind Natalie Elphicke.
^^
Tribal politics hides policy. If you ask Tory voters, a majority oppose Labour, but a majority back (most) Labour policies.
^^
But if Starmer can send a message that ANYONE is welcome in Labour, it bypasses that tribalism.
^^
He reckons (I think/hope) that if he can get the Tory right to vote Labour, he'll be able to do Labourish things that they agree with, but which they hate if you stick a red badge on it.
^^
Winning big - I mean seriously huge - also let's him have 10 or maybe 15 years to enact really big policy changes. Things people on the right say they want - housing, education, health, infrastructure. They'd say no if proposed by Corbyn, but if they vote Labour and then get them delivered, they'll trust Labour forever. And showing those voters that Elphicke is welcome sends that message, and allows that decade long, transformative change.
^^
That's what I think he's doing. That's the only thing that makes sense, considering he's a smart tactician and a life-long member of Labour. I rationalise that he wants to embed Labour as THE party of govt, replacing Tories, and allowing a permanent policy shift that "secretly" matches conservative voter wishes.
^^
Alternatively he's just stupid (I doubt it) and only spent 30 years in Labour to undermine it from within (I doubt it more).
^^
I sense Starmer is a fundamentally rational man, and I just can't see any other rational reasons for Elphicke to be welcomed. It makes me uncomfortable, but that's the only sense I can make of it. I hope I'm right.
^^
I accept entirely that I might be wrong.

Very reasonable indeed. It makes complete sense.

I'd have to disagree on his supposed rationality based on his views on self id, his silence on the case report findings, and his treatment of Rosie Duffield.

They aren't the actions of a rational person.

cass report

Bloody auto correct 🙄

here we go again.

I'm glad NE apologised to her husband's victims today for what she said about them.

Jess Phillips and Labour women did good there.

I can’t see “decorator crab” catching on as a political insult. It lacks the immediate silliness of “lettuce”, for instance. Penny needs a new scriptwriter, in fact they all do, far too much shark jumping in the last 3 seasons.

Good old Jess.

I'm glad too that NE has apologised for her remarks.

Interesting story from schools week.

"Pupil data is being used to check for benefit fraud and pursue parents under a secret deal between the education and work and pensions departments, Schools Week has learned.
Leaders have warned the move may lead to parents “withdrawing their children from schools”, amid calls for transparency over the collection of children’s data."

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/revealed-secret-deal-to-let-benefit-fraud-squad-snoop-on-pupil-data/#:~:text=Pupil%20data%20is%20being%20used,departments%2C%20Schools%20Week%20has%20learned

I will vote Labour.
I am not 100% convinced, but I have just seen the announcement on a policy tackling illegal immigration by going after the smugglers and I am really happy with that.
I was getting tired of saying exactly this.
I am also really happy that Starmer is plastering everything with the union jack.
I am seeingvin him a leader now, a quiet one, but a determined one.

Oh please, I've been involved in party politics since I was a teenager. Actual canvassing and campaigning rather than clictivism.
I've seen more than my share of twats, brocialists, racists etc march in and out the doors just like other parties. There is a periodic reset when it gets out of balance. Publicly throwing down the welcome mat for someone with NE's track record is a step beyond ordinary members and entryists when a party at least claims to be on the side of women and minorities.

Nor was it just a few comments defending her husband - there was a campaign of comments against the victims and women in general and she used her position as a publicly elected MP to try and influence the judge in the case. Her invocation of racist rhetoric is not in short supply either.

I'm not the only one angry about her being welcomed whilst long serving party members sit suspended waiting for the world slowest "independent investigations". She has been regularly been challenged on this and has doubled down or avoided it - she has had numerous opportunities to apologise over the past five years.

The idea that she gives a shiny shit about Labour is laughable. She is another Mad Nad trying to get publicity for her post Westminster career. Labour doesn't need her - short of global catastrophe over the Summer Sunak is already toast. The fact that Starmer has chosen to welcome her with gushing comments says more about him than anyone else.

Well that was ..... odd!

It looked like she was having a rant to an empty room though!

Is this the announcement you were talking about MushMonster?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-will-deploy-mi5-to-combat-channel-crisis-9sv8tcffw

All that is doubtless true but its not a battle worth pursuing, Labour need to move on and not throw the Tories a life line, the eye must be on the greater prize & don't fall into infighting, divided parties don't win GE's as the Tories may well find out.

Completely different if she was then going to be a Labour candidate or be an advisor on immigration policy.

Should Rwanda prove to be a successful deterrent, Labour will have its hands full on explaining what they will do with the policy...... NE will then be insignificant.