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Thread 44 Sunak: Hung parliament and Rishful thinking.

1000 replies

DuncinToffee · 08/05/2024 09:00

prevoius thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5066068-thread-43-sunak-seriously-scapegoating?page=40&reply=135107360

Thread 44 Sunak: Hung parliament and Rishful thinking.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
106
fabio12 · 16/05/2024 20:31

prettybird · 16/05/2024 19:53

I worked in management in the NHS in the early 90s (a pilot scheme bringing successful managers from the private sector and exposing them to an accelerated introduction to the NHS there is a whole other story as to why the pilot failed ). The Health of the Nation Report came out and iirc, amongst the key issues identified (alongside the impact of poor housing and diet on health outcomes) was mental health

This was 30. Years. Ago. SadShockAngry

Iirc, there was a lot of discussion as to what an appropriate metric would be, to demonstrate success in addressing mental health issue, and the sad conclusion was that a reduction in suicides would be the "best" one Sad

What a low bar @prettybird and although I know NHS isn't preventative it is somewhat diverse in causation.

I had a good friend commit suicide after she was told she had 3 months due to liver failure. She lasted 4 then they said she would have another 3...she couldn't go on like that with no mental health help. I often wonder how much of the suicide rates are people with terminal illness deciding their own fate that could have been supported through EOL with via NHS. It seems odd to be debating the downsides of terminal euthanasia when so many terminal patients aren't even given MH support.

AdamRyan · 16/05/2024 20:38

I think it was a bit better under Labour as they did measure things and have targets. You know, boring things like waiting lists and burglary rates.

TooBigForMyBoots · 16/05/2024 20:39

SerendipityJane · 16/05/2024 19:29

It is true. And it's on you to provide the rebuttal you claim exists, given my claim is on non existence.

Equal Opportunities was one. So the CS employed more women, ethnic minorities, disabled people and Catholics. I understand that the last one was local to my region.

Another was Child Support Agency metrics. We had to save 2p for every pound spent on processing. It wasn't a lot of money but it changed the viewpoint that men could walk away from their children with no consequences.

TooBigForMyBoots · 16/05/2024 20:41

And bringing employment to regions with high unemployment.

Alexandra2001 · 16/05/2024 20:41

user8800 · 16/05/2024 17:33

I agree with pp 💯

It's up to parents to talk to their kids about puberty/sex/safe sex

Sadly, many many parents think "it's the schools job" (along with toilet training, using a knife and fork, basic hygiene....)

I've known many parents who simply refuse to speak to their kids about sex

My own - Irish Catholic - mother never told me about periods, so when I started when I was 10, I was hysterical. I thought I had some sort of forbidden disease of the bottom! 😪

The only "advice" she ever gave me was "remember its not a carrot you're playing with." 😬

1980s

Got to deal with the world as it is and many kids don't get the things you want them to get at home.

So schools/surestart etc either do it or these disadvantaged children fall even further behind.

TooBigForMyBoots · 16/05/2024 20:43

Hi @AdamRyan.Smile

Notonthestairs · 16/05/2024 21:06

👋 AdamRyan - good to see you back.

"Got to deal with the world as it is and many kids don't get the things you want them to get at home.

So schools/surestart etc either do it or these disadvantaged children fall even further behind."
Agree with this.

pointythings · 16/05/2024 21:18

Hi @AdamRyan , welcome back.

I've hidden the latest 'Labour are against women' thread on AIBU. I'm too tired.

AdamRyan · 16/05/2024 21:25

I'll probably do the same. It's a bit dull.
Part of the reason i loved the local elections was it made me realise MN isn't really reflective of most people's thinking.

DuncinToffee · 16/05/2024 21:37

Grim reading

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/may/16/ministers-knew-about-carers-allowance-problems-three-years-ago-report-reveals

The DWP report was commissioned in 2019 after a parliamentary inquiry heavily criticised the department’s failure to understand the distress and hardship inflicted on tens of thousands of unpaid carers by its management of the allowance.

Although it was finished in 2021, ministers repeatedly blocked its publication.

Ministers knew about carer’s allowance problems three years ago, report reveals

Suppressed DWP study told of hardship endured by carers forced to repay thousands after minor allowance breaches

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/may/16/ministers-knew-about-carers-allowance-problems-three-years-ago-report-reveals

OP posts:
L1ttledrummergirl · 16/05/2024 21:48

My family member was caught in this years ago. They worked a fortnightly rota, one week eg £5 over, the following week £5 under the allowance.

They ran a 5 week assessment period where she earned £5 over and so claimed a large chunk of cash back.

My family member stopped claiming and only started again when they could no longer work due to caring responsibilities increasing. They now get a pension instead and think they have loads of money as its so much more than carers allowance.

It's a crap system.

TooBigForMyBoots · 16/05/2024 21:56

SerendipityJane · 16/05/2024 19:29

It is true. And it's on you to provide the rebuttal you claim exists, given my claim is on non existence.

What made you think success metrics don't exist for government projects?Confused

Bigcoatlady · 16/05/2024 22:26

prettybird · 16/05/2024 19:53

I worked in management in the NHS in the early 90s (a pilot scheme bringing successful managers from the private sector and exposing them to an accelerated introduction to the NHS there is a whole other story as to why the pilot failed ). The Health of the Nation Report came out and iirc, amongst the key issues identified (alongside the impact of poor housing and diet on health outcomes) was mental health

This was 30. Years. Ago. SadShockAngry

Iirc, there was a lot of discussion as to what an appropriate metric would be, to demonstrate success in addressing mental health issue, and the sad conclusion was that a reduction in suicides would be the "best" one Sad

As someone who has worked in MH in the NHS since then the response to that was to set up the National Confidential inquiry into Suicide in 1996 which reviews data related to every suicide recorded in England and Wales each year and reports on patterns, e.g. rises among children or postnatal women or the prison population and actions which need to be taken. As a result we have become more effective at suicide prevention and our suicide rates have declined significantly. We now have one of the lowest suicide rates in Europe - far lower than countries like Germany and France which are similar to us economically.

Each suicide is a massive tragedy for the individual and their loved ones. But they are treated as serious adverse events within the NHS and we have multiple systems in place to see what lessons can be learnt to reduce future deaths. This is true wherever they occur, not just deaths in MH settings, in fact particularly not deaths of people in MH settings as its the people who have not sought help from MH services before killing themselves who concern us most.

Its a good example of govt (Tory btw 94-96 when this was implemented) identifying the right action, implementing it and it bearing fruit over the long-term. Indeed leading a cultural change where we see suicide not as an inevitable tragedy but as a potentially preventable outcome to work to avoid.

I am really sorry if this is triggering for anyone in anyway. Having lost both loved ones and patients to suicide I know its a very heavy form of loss. Those of us working in the field do take it extremely seriously.

fabio12 · 16/05/2024 22:39

Thank you @Bigcoatlady that is good to know. I know my friend's family were shocked when they got the toxicology back and I did always wonder if it went on record as connected to her Consultant, who she had tried and failed to contact so many times in the weeks prior. She felt very much a burden to the NHS, largely due to the way he and his secretary spoke to her, so it would be nice to think something is being done to prevent it happening again.

Bigcoatlady · 16/05/2024 22:50

I am so sorry @fabio12 that is desperately sad.

user8800 · 16/05/2024 22:51

Alexandra2001 · 16/05/2024 20:41

Got to deal with the world as it is and many kids don't get the things you want them to get at home.

So schools/surestart etc either do it or these disadvantaged children fall even further behind.

One of the worst things the tories did was close the sure start centres

prettybird · 16/05/2024 23:23

@Bigcoatlady - I left the English NHS in 1994, so it's good to hear that my memory wasn't that far off - and that there had been a positive impact from a strategy.

I should have been clearer in my initial post: I'd meant that it was an example of a quantifiable metric, flawed as it was, and that it didn't just relate to those known to MH services. It's good to know that there was a positive impact. And yes, I was very aware that it was a Conservative Government (we even met Virginia Bottomley and had meetings at the DoH as part of our scheme Shock)

Unfortunately, the current Conservative Government seems to think that reducing sick days from mental health counts as a metric and that taking signing sick notes away from GPs, making it more difficult to be signed off counts as a strategy rather than putting proper resources into MH Angry

DuncinToffee · 16/05/2024 23:48

'knowing what a woman is'

https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3511/stages/18470/amendments/10014840

https://x.com/sianushka/status/1791118781827178869

A line-up of anti-abortion MPs, including George Galloway, Miriam Cates, IDS, JRM & Lee Anderson have tabled an amendment to reverse telemedicine and impose in-person consultations for women needing an abortion

The amendment from Flick Drummond says: "new clause would mean that a pregnant woman would need to have an in-person consultation before lawfully being prescribed medicine for the termination of a pregnancy."

OP posts:
AdamRyan · 16/05/2024 23:54

DuncinToffee · 16/05/2024 23:48

'knowing what a woman is'

https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3511/stages/18470/amendments/10014840

https://x.com/sianushka/status/1791118781827178869

A line-up of anti-abortion MPs, including George Galloway, Miriam Cates, IDS, JRM & Lee Anderson have tabled an amendment to reverse telemedicine and impose in-person consultations for women needing an abortion

The amendment from Flick Drummond says: "new clause would mean that a pregnant woman would need to have an in-person consultation before lawfully being prescribed medicine for the termination of a pregnancy."

Omg.
I saw on a thread the other day the normal line about abortion rights not being under threat in the UK and was itching to post that it's not true, sadly.

Maybe this is the latest "culture war" battleground coming up Angry

Bigcoatlady · 17/05/2024 00:50

I am sorry you had to meet Virginia Bottomley @prettybird ! But yes its a good example of govt done properly. It happens.

Again if I wanted to be fair (I don't) I'd say the coalition did actually do a lot of what it said it would. they were things I didn't want like impose austerity and massive cuts to public services, realterm cuts to NHS budgets etc, but Osborne as chancellor was perfectly effective at making commitments, including setting up the OBR. A snivelling little toad but an effective snivelling little toad. Its just been Brexit onwards that's created the impression they are all lying scum.

Bet Starmer's just gone and written all his pledges on the side of a bus hasn't he? Bum.

Piggywaspushed · 17/05/2024 06:11

I note there is a Labour MP on that amendment!

I am surprised that Tweeters are surprised about Galloway. He's just a Poundland Trump. 'Views' blow with the wind of his latest chosen demographic.

Piggywaspushed · 17/05/2024 06:13

Correction - TWO Labour MPs. Both female.

Piggywaspushed · 17/05/2024 06:24

Aargh. THREE. Can't count....

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