Thread 44 Sunak: Hung parliament and Rishful thinking.

[DuncinToffee]

prevoius thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5066068-thread-43-sunak-seriously-scapegoating?page=40&reply=135107360

I agree with you.

I will never vote tory.

But the fact is that the labour TWAW stance ilhas been HUGELY dangerous to women's and girls' rights,and I can't ignore that "because the tories are worse"

Yes. Of course they are. But trying to assert that labour is somehow less bad by dint of being labour is ludicrous.

It's an absolute shit show, and I look forward to a time when rational thought once again trumps "feelz"

Yeah. That hadn't escaped me 🙄
It's like..."do you hear yourselves!?"

I’m with you @pointythings. I want to see the public services that affect vast tranches of women and children sorted out. When we have decent healthcare, education and no reliance on food banks I’ll maybe have head space to worry about the trans issue.

It's not so much that the “Tories are worse”. It's more that they have been in actual power for 14 years.

Well said @pointythings

It'll be too late then.

And as far as I can see KS is simply telling us all it'll be tory business as usual if he takes charge..

As with that link @SerendipityJane posted - I honestly wish they'd put as much money and time into getting "feckless fathers" to cough up - last time I checked only one third of single mums got any maintenance from the father of their child at all! They have powers to withold passports and impound cars yet never do. If they sorted out the CSA and enforced the rules there they'd probably halve the claimants on DWP anyway! It's crazy how our system works for mothers.

Landlords - I was wondering why if DWP pays directly do they need to check? Then I realised a few will be renting to their kids and kids claiming benefits for housing and paying it to their family. I have heard rumours of this happening more frequently.

Labours policies are diametrically the opposite to Tory ones, as they start from a completely different position.

However, Labour are being hamstrung by the Tories, who are doing everything they can to reduce any incoming Lab Govt's ability to spend differently and/or more.

I still don't get whats so terrible about Jess Phillips or Labours position on TW/Female rights.

The issues we see are as a direct result of Tory policies NOT Labour ones.

I'll await their manifesto before doing the Tories job and rubbishing them before a GE has even been called.

Landlords - I was wondering why if DWP pays directly do they need to check? Then I realised a few will be renting to their kids and kids claiming benefits for housing and paying it to their family. I have heard rumours of this happening more frequently

If an adult child is unemployed but living at home with a working parent, why shouldn't that child be able to claim some sort of HB? (its heavily reduced in these cases) the child has to be on a tenancy agreement too...does DWP even know its own rules?

The total rent for the property doesn't increase in this scenario & the alternative is the adult child is kicked out and will be claiming even more or even becomes homeless, which defo ends up costing far more.

The norm is any HB element is paid to the claimant, only if the claimant has arrears or issues in being able to pay, is rent paid direct.

I can’t bring myself to care if adult children are paying HB to family. They’ve got to live somewhere, the state of housing in the UK is atrocious and a percentage of landlords take the absolute piss with condition, safety and price of property. I’d rather the money went to family than some landlords and I assume those family members need to pass certain criteria to be registered as landlords?
There might be a tiny proportion who are taking the piss, as there will be with any benefit. But it’s minuscule compared to the swingeing pisstaking by the richest people and companies with all the facilities for minimising tax they have at their disposal.

Jess P is an MP beloved of most (all?) VAWG campaign groups and charities. I believe she is the patron of a few , and it is of course Jess wo , on IWD, reads out in parliament the list of all the women and girls who have died at the hands of male violence in the preceding year : one of the HoC's most sobering and electrifying annual events. She campaigns locally and nationally on the issue.

Her book is quite a good read.

She was also shadow secretary for DV and safeguarding until she left the front bench. I'm pretty sure the Tories don't have an equivalent post.

In fact, just checked , as something was niggling me. I'm fairly sure JP is not especially revered in the trans community. And she isn't . She has been 'accused' of excluding trans rights in her focus on equalities and women's' rights.

There are other Labour MPs who are more trans inclusive , for want of a better phrase , as there are in all parties.

She has openly defended Rosie Duffield, campaigned for singe sex spaces in particular for refugee women and women fleeing DV, and been pretty clear on her views. She is , I'd say, totally pragmatic on this whilst also campaigning for LGBT education to be better.

I'd say this belief stems from some people getting overwrought about her reading Brianna Ghey's name out when she read her list. I think on the whole the backlash and venom aimed at her about that was fleeting ,was not regarded as the GC movement's greatest hour and was not at all controversial to most.

I'll shut up now! She's not my favourite Labour MP by a long stretch but I really admire her passion, and I think it's unfair to label her views which are quite nuanced. I don't read FWR at all and it may be that this one moment has defined her as part of the 'out group'. I expect there were threads.

I would like to acknowledge Karen Ingala Smith, who does the work compiling the horrific list that Jess Phillips reads out, alongside the other women of Femicide Census.
There is much to admire about JP, despite her TWAW views being different to my own. Standing up year after year making people listen to the list that is too long is admirable and I applaud her for that.

Thanks @Piggywaspushed for those posts. I loves JPs book Everything you need to know about politics or whatever it was, and I have a lot of time for her.

@Alexandra2001 & @Saucery I completely agree about the rent - I honestly think if they sorted out men not paying for their kids we could half the DWP claims in one fell swoop. Funny that they never think of stopping the root cause of the poverty for mothers but want to beat down anyone else helping them stay afloat.

You've heard of the 'least worst' option user8800? Berate Labour when it's got the power to change things; meanwhile 14 years of Tories encouraging division to divert us while they and their friends raid the till. You'd invite more of the same?

I suppose I see the damage done by the TRA agenda on a daily basis.

Therefore, it's high on my list of important issues.

I fully appreciate - and indeed have stated - that not many on this thread will agree with me.

But you do not get to tell me what I should care about.

I'm not going to mention it again (dissent obviously not allowed!) but I will point out that a basic Google search will provide plenty of Info on labour politicians and their horrific remarks and views on women (David lammy, anyone?)

Until you've seen, first hand, what this agenda does to (mostly) nd and vulnerable kids, I imagine it must seem a "quaint" thing to worry about.

In 20 years' time, when the health service is trying to cope with the as yet unknown effects of giving young children puberty blockers and the long-term health issues from botched surgery, I sense this issue will gain salience.

The tories are slashing and burning - it's what they do. To be expected.

I think labour is being held to a fucking low bar.

I think labour is being held to a fucking low bar.

That's the MSM for you

What irritates me around the trans debate and Labour is that everything is assumptions. There's no evidence that Labour will throw women under the bus. There's no evidence that Labour won't implement the Cass report. There's just an assumption that they will do x, y and z without anything at all to back it up. There's endless demands that they provide commitments - come on, they have other things on their plate right now. You can fret until your teeth ache, or you can wait until a GE is called and then make a call on where your vote is going to go and why.

I'm not going to mention it again (dissent obviously not allowed!)

It is not true that dissent is not allowed on this thread. But discussing transgender issues always derails the thread, so we have tacitly agreed to largely leave it at the door. After all, there is a whole separate board for that discussion.

I am not sure I like JP, but her work is admirable and I think reading out the annual grim list of names is essential.

I don't know.

I know a fair few 15-21 year olds. All bright, all politically aware, (some study politics). Not one of them feels labour represents them. They don't feel hopeful or excited about a labour government.

If the left can't engage young people, then we are truly experiencing a political cleavage shift - probably a once in a century thing.

"Least worst option." Yeah.
Not a ringing endorsement, is it?

I refer you to my point about an MSM that are more than happy to invent a string of premises in their own heads and then devote football pitch areas of print into "discussing it" with zero input from the real world. Effectively creating a "reality" that is hard - or impossible - to challenge.

Humans used to have to deal with a reality that was within grasp. And we were pretty shit at that. Now we have to deal with an extended world that stretches way beyond anything we can deal with effectively.

I'm still undecided.

Every single time I think "yes, I'll just vote labour to GTTO" they do something that leaves me with my head in my hands.

They've rowed back on climate change promises, their stance on Gaza is awful, in recent months labour MPs have praised both Thatcher and Gove....

I'm not a single issue voter.

I feel like I'm in the upside down at times!