Lord help me, a child with no manners is around for a sleepover

[Rainallnight]

Good friend of DD is over on a sleepover. Both going on 8. There hasn’t been a single please or thank you from the friend. I am probably being unreasonable (hence not posting in AIBU!) but I find it very grating and it’s going to get on my nerves all the through.

Just needed to get that off my chest!

My DH doesn't have English as his Mother Tongue. This means he often talks imperatively which can feel quite aggressive. He also says can I rather than please or thank you. I've worked with Irish people who would say "Would you put the kettle on?" rather than Please put the kettle on.

I think there are cultures that are polite but don't say please or thank you. I think you are perhaps judging a child by your own cultural standards.

I always double-take at the Irish “ would you” because for me growing up it was used on phrase where a teacher or parent had lost their temper: “Would you please be quiet!”

But it only takes a moment to recalibrate and then I remember it’s just cultural difference.

I agree that no child should be shamed. I'm talking about a child I've hosted countless times, over many years, and know well, and care about.

I'm not sure where you're getting the 'in this house' thing from, I haven't said that. Are you addressing this to someone else?

As an adult, it falls to me to clearly communicate boundaries, model respect, and help a child learn how to get along in the world.

My irritation is mostly reserved for the child's parents, tbh.

Yes I was referring to a lot of the early posts which said to tell the visitor that “ in this house we say …”. To be honest this thread has morphed ( more than a lot) into a general discussion driven by response content because actually if you go back and look the OP only commented that the lack of manners was grating; she didn’t ask whether or not she should say anything.

I think if you look after this particular child a good deal that starts to shade into a degree of responsibility for them along the lines of a carer or educator. I do think that puts a different blush on it.

… and I agree about the irritation being more towards the parent. But that’s also where in many of the instances it is fundamentally competitive parenting and one-upmanship, rather than concern for the child. And the child gets caught in the fray which, as both you and I have essentially defined etiquette and manners, defeats the whole purpose of being a kind of social lubricant and soft filter.

We had a kid visit once who refused to sit at the table to eat as she just didn't want to and was allowed to wander round at home, smearing food all over everything.

She was told that no we don't do it like that here and to sit down like the other kids at the table. She could get down when everyone had finished. She refused.

So DH said that's ok. No pudding then as you are not sitting at the table. Child moaned that it wasn't fair. DH said sit and you can have pudding. Child refused because she don't want to.

All kids have pudding except rude kid.

Parent picks up, child whinges to parent that she wasn't allowed pudding, DH explains why. Parent looks embarrassed and says 'quite right too'. Child looks very put out.

Your rules , your house.

The kid was NT by the way, just entitled and over indulged. She wasn't invited back.

That's no excuse. In this country we say please and thank you, and if they are living here then they need to learn to do so. Part of communicating in another language is doing so with the expected cultural norms.

There is a huge variation in politeness. I see it regularly as I work with the public. Some are polite in tone others use please / thank you as a weapon. I know who I prefer to work with.

Are you serious?????

I was such a socially anxious little button! I would have spent an hour working up the courage to ask for water and my throat may have closed up before I could get out the “please” on the end. Yes, I would have always said it at home and today as a confident adult no problem.

An irritated “please” from an adult would have spiralled me and I would have internally marked you as nasty and rude and would have never spoken to you again.

I thought you were going to say it was something drastic, like making a huge mess in the kitchen or setting the bathroom on fire.

I'd say just let it go, and possibly the girl is just shy after all she is around you and your home, not her own home. would have been mortified if somebody's parents corrected me I like that.

I mean it is rather shaming and patronizing.

There's already enough pressure on women and girls as it is to be quiet, likable, always nice and polite, usually to their own detriment

Totally agree with you. The way some women on here have been talking about a 7 year old girl is revolting.

" no child should be shamed" . No child should be thrown out into the world without the benefit of manners.

Quite right! They should be kept in the womb till they’ve learnt to say ‘please’ and ‘thank you’

Ideally yes, whilst listening to Mozart.

I agree with this completely.

And reading Debrett’s.

Yes. ‘No manners’ sounds quite extreme like the young lady in the limerick.

There was a young lady from Tottenham,
Who had no manners, or else she'd forgotten 'em.
At tea at the vicar's,
She tore off her knickers.
Because, she explained, she felt hot in 'em.

Jeez, reading this thread you'd think possessing good manners was borderline racist. Talk about bigotry of low expectations.

100%.

There's already enough pressure on women and girls as it is to be quiet, likable, always nice and polite, usually to their own detriment.

politeness is not gender-dependent. Children need to learn appropriate manners, whether they are boys or girls.

🤣🤣@WhatWouldJeevesDo. I like that one!

eh, politeness is different for girls and women than for boys and men and if you don't think it is, you are fooling yourself. Please and thank you and other shows of manners are a lot more expected of women than men and bad manners are more likely to be excused in men than women. You can see the evidence all around you, from the larger amount of men who chew loudly and with their mouths open to the number of women who apologize when someone else runs into them while walking. Those are just examples.
Everyone needs to learn manners, but not all people are expected to uphold the same level of manners.

If, societally, we don’t hold males to the same standards as females and excuse bad behavior in males, all the more reason to change that by teaching boys the same level of politeness, and refusing to accept or excuse rude behavior. 🤷‍♀️.

Completely agree