Behaviour going to shit in schools

[noblegiraffe]

Government data shows that on average schools are losing about a quarter of lesson time to poor behaviour.

"In May 2023, 76 per cent of teachers reported that misbehaviour “stopped or interrupted teaching” in at least some lessons in the past week, up from 64 per cent in June 2022."

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/schools-lose-a-quarter-of-lesson-time-to-poor-behaviour-dfe-survey/

There needs to be discussion about what is going on. As well as poor behaviour in classrooms increasing, school attendance is a massive problem, and internal truancy where kids are in school but not attending lessons is also an increasing issue.

Covid is pointed to as 'breaking the social contract between schools and families' as a reason for increasing absence. One reason for increasing absence is an increase in term-time holidays. I'm not so sure that this is a result of covid and social contracts so much as the cost of living crisis and the extortionate price of holidays out of term time. Increased sickness absence is also an issue. One wonders why the government hasn't clocked the connection between a recent pandemic and increased sickness absence. Their response is to tell parents to send children in when ill. I'm sure that will help.

But why are kids increasingly not behaving when in school?

Social media, lack of parental interest in education etc etc. No doubt they all contribute. But my theory is:

Schools are an increasingly shit experience for kids.

People keep talking about the curriculum being boring and an overloaded and dry curriculum is obviously an issue, but we've had the same curriculum for nearly a decade now. What has been getting worse, particularly in recent years?

Teacher recruitment and retention.
One thing that is massively important in schools for kids is consistency. Consistent teachers that they can build relationships with and rely on are a hugely underrated part of the school experience.

They are not getting that. Recruitment is a massive issue, so instead of having permanent teachers a lot of the time, they are getting supply. Maybe they stay for a few months, then it's someone new. If they're lucky, it's someone who knows the subject. If they're unlucky, it's a different person every day who knows nothing. If they're really unlucky (as in the case with some of my sixth form) it's no one.

Kids see cover lessons in secondary as a doss. They don't expect to have to do any work in them. I see kids head to a class with a cover teacher then the whisper to go down the corridor "Yes! We've got supply!" (Don't get me wrong there are some excellent supply teachers out there, working in increasingly challenging circumstances. But we are also in the situation of having to put a warm body, any warm body in front of a class).

It's happening more and more often. Parents are starting to complain about the amount of cover lessons their children are having. But there's nothing the school can do about it.

I've had kids come to my lesson and say 'miss, I've had cover all morning, I can't be expected to behave now'. And they're bouncing off the walls. Lack of routine, lack of consistency, lack of clear expectations and experience and they can't handle it.

And the amount of classrooms without teachers is increasing. Figures for teacher recruitment next year are grim. They were grim last year.

Expect more cover lessons.

the pressure on education is more than its ever been, which in hindsight is thanks to covid, the kids in year 11 now were in year 7 & 8 when we had lockdowns. I remember teachers going on non stop about GCSEs being important, they 15/16 years old, I personally don’t think the amount of pressure put on them is at all right. DS is 16 has asd, we had a period of time a few weeks back where they were getting nagged in every lesson about how important they are, DS was in a state, he was struggling as it is. He has an echp plan and we’re able to stipulate that no one is to mention the importance of GCSEs to him for the foreseeable future. We have the school by the balls due to some royal fuck ups they made. I appreciate teachers are getting pressured aswell, but that’s a profession you chose, 80% of kids would rather not be at school. Behaviour in school will always be an issue, it was an issue when I was at high school 20 years ago, it still is now, loads of factors, peer pressure, complicated home life. Although many teachers are angels we all know that some are twats, we’ve all been there, we’ve all had that one teacher who thought they were god and made things 100 times worse. The one where the power went to thier head and spoke to kids like shit. Every kids situation is different and you’ll be guaranteed to have one smart arse, one clown and one absolute maniac in every class, that’s how it’s always been.

A lot is SEN mentioned on this thread - are there any teachers here who taught in the let's say 90s Vs Now?

Interested to know how schools adjusted then to those pupils with SEN e.g. adhd, sensory type needs etc.

My children often say there are so many children with such additional needs that their school cannot accommodate for the large volume.

@sunshine2go you say uniform rules always used to be strict - but when look back the strict uniforms (in the state system) were more likely to be for Grammar schools and the secondary moderns had either no uniform or a casual one. This often meant that some children who passed the 11+ ending up not going to a Grammar because their parents couldn't afford the uniform (this was even more the case pre the 1944 education act when secondary education wasn't even available for all).
During the 70s/80s/90s uniforms became a lot more casual only to have the more "traditional" style ones start up again in the last 15 years so. Many of those who are parents of the current teenagers probably didn't have to wear such a strict uniform.

Having worked in education for 20 years, there has been a huge shift in behaviour and a major factor has been an evident change in parenting.

Children often feel entitled more than ever now to do as they please. Many more than in the previous decade, know that they can get away with things because they can give their parents reasons why they did things and their parents will find someone to blame.

Technology has also very likely impacted. Lots see things which are totally inappropriate for their age. Young children learn to swear. Young children see things that have lasting impact- violence, terror, horror.

Lots never have to practise the art of patience - they can have whatever they want, whenever they want. They can rewind tv, they can watch their programme whenever they like, they can turn their game on and it’s there immediately, they can wonder something and search it up immediately, they can decide they want to say something to a friend and can do it immediately.

Many young children talk about being on screens late into the night, having unsupervised and free access to them whenever they like. More children than you would expect, have no proper bed time and stay up far later than is good for them - children are often tired. They say I was in bed but I played on my iPad and went to sleep at 11. They fall asleep in the classroom.

Some children expect to be constantly entertained. Fun stuff does happen in schools. All schools are different and often people forget that as they lump all schools and teachers in to one.

The curriculum is full and includes things that children do not need to know and the drive to force them to also remember everything is another issue, yes. Lots in the curriculum seems irrelevant but schools and teachers do try hard to make this engaging. There is only so much they can do though. It’s also far too full.

The budget cuts mean there are not enough staff to support children who have behavioural needs or send needs or experienced trauma. The reduction in people wanting to work in schools has done the same. 20 years ago, schools might have over 100 applications for jobs, now they may be lucky to have 3.

It is very hard to get support from beyond school for children - services are cut, wait times are long.

Perhaps our experiences are different as the schools I attended in the 90s and 00's were incredibly strict on uniform and I can't think of any schools local to me at the time, that weren't strict.

I can't speak for the pre 90s however any photos I have seen children looked smart. I'm going to keep a closer eye out now!

@JojoSeawitchHasBeenABadBadGirl I don't mean team teaching. I mean more heads of department from different subjects planning together. Example: in art year 9 need to learn to draw a room in one point perspective. In Re year 9 are learning about the differences between Catholic churches and protestant churches. Solution: in art students draw two basic rooms. The teacher of art gives their 2 room drawings to their RE teacher. Students need to make the rooms they have drawn look like the insides of churches. Their RE teacher teaches them that Catholic churches are more decorated and have statues so they draw statues on one of the room drawings. This isn't team teaching, it's joined up thinking. They are drawing what the inside of a Catholic and protestant church looks like rather than copying facts off the board.

Very true! Also primary - definite shift over 20 years.

@JojoSeawitchHasBeenABadBadGirl Our head of department had the idea that year 7 could make Ocarinas out of clay. The music teacher is going to teach them how to use them. I will play ocarina music whilst they make them. The scheme of work is art with music.

Perhaps with some parents.

However, my child has been physically assaulted in the 7 months that she has been at her new school. One incident involves sexual contact. I am not a parent that revels in complaining. Yet each incident warrants an investigation.

Each time, the school has gone out its way to gather evidence against my child, because it might affect their rating.

@JojoSeawitchHasBeenABadBadGirl I've also just suggested a lesson to my head of department about illustrating poems. This would be art with English.

Totally agree on the parenting aspect and behaviour.

I love your perspective on boredom. I hadn't thought about this in detail but I agree this may impact behaviour for some. I remember being bored out of my mind often as a child whether at home or visiting a relative etc. and just had to be patient. Now I remember years ago my toddler crying because he had to watch an advert as it was live TV lol!

But ultimately discipline for children is much needed across the country by parents.

@sunshine2go your list is spot on. Most of this impacts primary in the same way- including phones and social media.

@sunshine2go I suppose it did vary.
My home town when I was at school (late 80s/90s) had 4 schools.
School 1 - uniform of any style of navy skirt/trousers, jumper or cardy, white shirt and a tie for the boys. Uniform was only compulsory for the first 3 years (Years 7 - 9 in modern terms).
School 2 - basically the same but with a different tie (boys and girls) and compulsory all through the school.
School 3 - pretty much same as 2 - I think they wore grey instead of navy.
School 4 - no uniform.
Now those 4 schools are all a variation on the blazer/tie/tartan skirt/logo on everything style. Two of the schools are considered so awful that people sent their children to schools in different towns if they can. Fancy uniforms yet the schools are at their worst.
Sad really.

Again, a blame on schools and teachers.

This is your experience of some schools and some teachers. You sound like you are looking down on teachers now because they aren’t as good as in 00s. Some of us have been in education earlier than this and are still there and are inclusive, build relationships, encourage a love of learning and we witness our newer colleagues doing the same thing.

I can’t stand this lumping of all schools and all teachers into one. Bad experiences with some does not = all bad schools or all bad teachers.

My friend’s 10 yo year 5 daughter has been a model pupil since Reception. Behaves well, has nice friends, gets involved etc. There is a child in her class who is frankly a little (insert word I am too polite to say), terrorizes the other children and makes the teacher’s life difficult. My friend’s kid said the other day ‘for heaven’s sake XXX, stop being mean to (insert other classmate’s name). Horror child runs off saying she has been picked on.
And guess who ends up getting a letter hime with a warning about bullying??????
Fortunately my friend sees right through it, told her kid not to worry and took her to Mcdonalds as a treat for standing up for her mate.

You’re probably right. I have no idea as not in school arena. But general everything has declined rapidly since Covid so not surprised.

The reason for posting is I read last week that a third of primary schools will be shut in the next 10 years. Due to the slowing in birth rate from Covid and now this COL / war doom zeitgeist we find ourselves in.

I was on a thread last week talking about the housing crisis. That too will likely resolve itself somewhat once the boomers sadly start to well.. you know.

Im starting to think the government knows all this. And that’s why they aren’t that bothered anymore. Everything is just going to continue to get worse for a decade and then things will improve again. Depressing

Labour who pioneered absorbing SEN kids in mainstream schools. Hundreds of SEN schools were disbanded in the late 90s by Labour and Ruth Kelly in particular who then sent her SEN son to a private school.

@Isitovernow123 Most European countries don’t have uniforms and it’s not a problem!

Parents in England want uniforms in schools.

Re isolation rooms. My ds spent a fair bit of time in his school's one during Ys7 and 8. It helped him by giving him a break from the classroom and 1:1 time with an adult.

I'm sure that it helped his teachers and the rest of the class to have a break from him pissing about as well.

My dd was in another school at the time that didn't have this provision. The result was her class was utter chaos with no avenue to remove the disruptive children.

@noblegiraffe most parents I know are ok with uniforms but just want them to be basic casual ones with no frigging logos.

I deffo want uniform in secondary school. I wouldn't have home to school if my school hadn't had a uniform in the 1980s. No uniform is shit for poorer families.

No they don’t.

I hated them as a parent.

As a teacher I’d get loads of parents complaining about them.

Uniforms are so pointless and mean nothing in a school.

You might have hated them as a parent, but the polling data says a majority want them at secondary.

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/44393-most-britons-say-schools-should-provide-school-uni?redirect_from=%2Ftopics%2Fpolitics%2Farticles-reports%2F2022%2F11%2F14%2Fmost-britons-say-schools-should-provide-school-uni

my children are at independent schools and I think a huge part of the positive environment is the engagement and involvement of the parents.

a lot of them are very busy and both work full time to pay for fees - but they mostly make space to engage as much as they’re able to with school life. It feels like we’re all on the same team supporting our children.

I am not sure what the answer is to engaging parent community with schools - it seems to happen more often at primary schools. But we need to somehow persuade people that ‘buying in’ to school culture together / as a family is important.