Behaviour going to shit in schools

[noblegiraffe]

Government data shows that on average schools are losing about a quarter of lesson time to poor behaviour.

"In May 2023, 76 per cent of teachers reported that misbehaviour “stopped or interrupted teaching” in at least some lessons in the past week, up from 64 per cent in June 2022."

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/schools-lose-a-quarter-of-lesson-time-to-poor-behaviour-dfe-survey/

There needs to be discussion about what is going on. As well as poor behaviour in classrooms increasing, school attendance is a massive problem, and internal truancy where kids are in school but not attending lessons is also an increasing issue.

Covid is pointed to as 'breaking the social contract between schools and families' as a reason for increasing absence. One reason for increasing absence is an increase in term-time holidays. I'm not so sure that this is a result of covid and social contracts so much as the cost of living crisis and the extortionate price of holidays out of term time. Increased sickness absence is also an issue. One wonders why the government hasn't clocked the connection between a recent pandemic and increased sickness absence. Their response is to tell parents to send children in when ill. I'm sure that will help.

But why are kids increasingly not behaving when in school?

Social media, lack of parental interest in education etc etc. No doubt they all contribute. But my theory is:

Schools are an increasingly shit experience for kids.

People keep talking about the curriculum being boring and an overloaded and dry curriculum is obviously an issue, but we've had the same curriculum for nearly a decade now. What has been getting worse, particularly in recent years?

Teacher recruitment and retention.
One thing that is massively important in schools for kids is consistency. Consistent teachers that they can build relationships with and rely on are a hugely underrated part of the school experience.

They are not getting that. Recruitment is a massive issue, so instead of having permanent teachers a lot of the time, they are getting supply. Maybe they stay for a few months, then it's someone new. If they're lucky, it's someone who knows the subject. If they're unlucky, it's a different person every day who knows nothing. If they're really unlucky (as in the case with some of my sixth form) it's no one.

Kids see cover lessons in secondary as a doss. They don't expect to have to do any work in them. I see kids head to a class with a cover teacher then the whisper to go down the corridor "Yes! We've got supply!" (Don't get me wrong there are some excellent supply teachers out there, working in increasingly challenging circumstances. But we are also in the situation of having to put a warm body, any warm body in front of a class).

It's happening more and more often. Parents are starting to complain about the amount of cover lessons their children are having. But there's nothing the school can do about it.

I've had kids come to my lesson and say 'miss, I've had cover all morning, I can't be expected to behave now'. And they're bouncing off the walls. Lack of routine, lack of consistency, lack of clear expectations and experience and they can't handle it.

And the amount of classrooms without teachers is increasing. Figures for teacher recruitment next year are grim. They were grim last year.

Expect more cover lessons.

The isolation room closed. I cannot believe such a barbaric prison esque feature was even used. Seems like it's common in state funded schools.

You'd prefer the kid that is pissing around and interrupting the learning of others stays in the classroom?

I think it’s the move in society away from Love Thy Neighbour, and towards Put Yourself First, don’t care about your neighbour.

I'm a teacher and I'm interested in whether teachers can make lessons more interesting by collaborating with a teacher from another subject. At the moment I'm teaching a scheme of work that mixes art with psychology, and my year tens are really enjoying it. Looking at the influence of Sigmund Freud on Surrealism currently. I wonder if people think mixing two curriculum areas together could be generally popular?

It's a nice idea but when? It's already a struggle to cover the content and skills.

Which is exactly the correct way to support a child with. If a child was deaf and the impact on their disability was reduced by using hearing aids at home, would you be so scathing about their use in school?

Mrs Hamlet, the psychology stuff is integrated into the art so it doesn't take up too much extra time.

It's a nice idea but when? It's already a struggle to cover the content and skills.

Quite. My subject (languages) has quite a lot of cross-curricular elements anyway tbh.

I work in pastoral support, and there is a vibe that the school will sort it out, or wave a magic wand and fix it. Parents are always told to speak to the school for support, but we are limited in experience and ability and we are not at home with them. There is also a belief that we must not judge people, so are left skirting around the edges of inadequate parenting.

shamefully there is no where to refer the families too, social services’ criteria is so high now and the school can only do so much.

I also think there is a lot of poverty, I don’t think benefits help in some respects, most people benefit for working par time and it increases confidence and self esteem, rather than sitting at home waiting to pick up your children, people worlds are very small and aspirations are low, and local dramas often become bigger than needed because it’s interesting and exciting.

You are absolutely correct. There are shite teachers. However, ime, the issue is the parents 60%, children 20% and teachers 20%

Parents because their little darlings are so precious, so they minimise the behaviour. Children - yes some are just a pain in the backside and little some parents can do. Teachers who have not control over their classes.

My biggest bugbear is kids that disrupt the learning of the vast majority. When you remove them to spend time in isolation/reflection etc the parents moan like hell because the kids were ‘only chatting/laughing’. The disruption those individuals cause in class is actually massive.

I teacher all types of secondary children and my best behaved classes are those with a lot of children whom others have labelled as disruptive. They just don’t know how to treat them. Personalised teacher is a difficult thing because you have to adapt every single lesson.

Most disrupted lessons tends to be the previously high performing students who can’t be arsed and parents tell them not to worry about certain subjects.

Don't vote Tory!

When they said austerity- they meant it!

13 years of Tory under resourcing ...

Teaching is harder now. Social media changes everything.

Also Gove's changes were detrimental.

I've seen a school turn round fast as an academy.

And some of that is an injection of more staff and a complete reorganisation. But mostly more resource. Better supported Head Teacher.
Head teacher has a full team of other head teachers to help with ideas.

State schools Head teacher left to do everything alone. It's too much.

So -- resource the right resource fixes it.

We can bail out all the private companies failing our services. And we can't resource schools?

Really?

I totally agree OP. The current system is shit for both teachers and kids. I was watching the BBC programme about persistent absences and the teenager with suspected ASD who found it overwhelming. Then it showed.a crazy packed loud noisy corridor..I would hate that too and I don't have ASD. Most adults work in more calm environments unless they choose to work in an airport/A and E. Why do some people think 20% young people can't cope in these awful situations the problem is them and not the environment.

parental viewpoint:

Schools are too big and feel unfriendly and prison like.

Too many pointless uniform rules undermine the school’s natural authority, the schools just present as robots!

apart from supporting our own children with outside learning and attendance, and not voting Tory, what else can parents actually do to improve education??

I am a primary school TA and can echo that primary school behaviour is atrocious. Children need firm boundaries and consequences but many schools including mine have gone down the therapeutic route. All it does is make it look like we are doing nothing about poor behaviour. Children are allowed to routinely trash classrooms and physically hurt children and staff and Instead of consequences we make excuses for it. We are setting these children up to fail because life is not all fluffy and nice and in the outside world you throw a chair at someone in the office and you will be sacked for gross misconduct. I am not even talking about SEN children it’s the Children with no SEN that are doing this because they have been allowed to get away with it. Parents make excuses for it as well and are always on the defensive. However the same parents are the ones who are quick to complain about someone else’s child and demand exclusion for the most minor misdemeanour. I honestly pity the secondary schools in the next few years because if you think it’s bad now this is what’s coming up behind.

They still did piss around.

Now that child has detentions every lunch if needed and after school.
They get called in to the deputy head.
Letters home to parents.
Etc. it's managed now.
Isolation does nothing but get the student angry.

Isolation didn't work. Behaviour was appalling.

Some students expelled. Moved classes.

Detentions do work. And good practice.

Toilets also locked up in lesson time. So no vaping in toilets.

Lots more behaviour changes.

Changed all the roles of the teachers. Year managers.

I agree with the gross.misconduct for throwing a chair. I also think if an adult worker with mental health problem was.told to be more 'resilient' by their boss, like struggling kids are often told, the boss would quite rightly end up in a tribunal.

Isolation does nothing but get the student angry.

It gets them out of my lesson so that the other kids have a chance to learn something.

We got rid of our isolation room a few years back. Behaviour swiftly became unmanageable and we reinstated it.

But how do you make buildings full of kids not noisy, except by introducing Michaela-style methods (which don't suit lits of kids either)? Classrooms can be noisy too - when 30 kids are doing pair work it's inevitably noisy! Obviously ideally you get them to work quietly when you want them to, but that is pretty hard to achieve with some classes.

Academies seem to have more freedom to act and more support.
They also expel more kids.

I do think it's also overcrowded though.

There was a strict uniform when I was in school in the 80s. Nobody talked about them being pointless or robotic, they just followed them.

Schools should do away with uniforms, then they might have more time focussing on learning and behaviour. My son's school is OBSESSED. Giving kids detention after school for an untucked shirt? Get a grip and put more effort into supporting kids!!

The effects of screens on behaviour cannot be under played. I've 3 teenagers at 3 different schools. Some of their classmates are up all night gaming/on their phones etc. when I was at school decent telly ended at 10pm and we had nothing to do but go to bed. Now my friends say they can't keep their kids off screens (I am strict cow that doesn't let them game after 9pm and not everyday).
Screens definitely affect my kids behaviour and ability to sleep if not controlled.

apart from supporting our own children with outside learning and attendance, and not voting Tory, what else can parents actually do to improve education??

I'd say right now it isn't going to be good enough to just not vote Tory. Labour don't seem particularly on the ball regarding the crisis in schools and are non-committal about funding. They need parents on at them about specific problems demanding solutions.

I guess different schools work differently.
Is your school an academy or a state school?

If a child plays up they are sent to the office to see a deputy head and then have lunch time detentions and after school. They don't stay in isolation all day.

It's a whole series of measures. Not just one.

The school did crack down hard on behaviours at lunch etc.

Can you even imagine the effect that would have on students? The bullying that would occur because of the clothes some children wear compared to others?

I like uniforms. But agree overemphasis is pointless. Detentions for a shirt is pointless.
But being late to a lesson is not.

Our school did the uniform detentions nonsense.
Didn't work.
Now detentions are all learning related.
Much more tolerant with uniforms.