Thread 42 Sunak : Ping Pong with the Enemies of the People

[DuncinToffee]

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I still remember my dad saying "But you can't vote for Corbyn, he's an idiot!" then having him up against Boris...he had to eat his words when it was clear he had no clue what he was doing and relied heavily on ruffling his hair and "er" -ing. It's the lack of absurdly high self opinion that I think has held Corbyn in good stead. He was almost a polar opposite to Boris and strangely for my dad (lifelong Tory voter until Boris) Corbyn would have likely been a safer pair of hands purely because he would admit his faults and thought of other people.

Angela Rayner made me laugh with her pint size remark. She made some Conservatives laugh too apparently. Good for her.

The problem is that Corbyn didn't acknowledge his faults, he thought he was RIGHT. That's why he was so wrong on Brexit and largely contributed to the 2% that swung the voted the wrong way.

theres a lot of misinformation about Corbyn and Brexit. He campaigned for stay far more than is acknowledged, and among Labour voters - presumably the group who would be swayed by him - there was a majority for stay. Was he effusive about the EU? No. But I think it’s wrong to blame him for the result.

No, he really didn't. He paid a bit of lip service to it when he had to, but he never turned up at any rallys, nor anything else useful. His most pro-European attitude was being a bit equivocal about it. He never came out to use his undenied skills at rousing a crowd in favour of it, because he was always pro-Brexit. Which, obviously, shows he wasn't the brightest...

Really?

He gave speeches, but they were at best equivocal. He didn't appear in places where he could have made a mark (I know, I was at some of them), and his "support" was never anything other than luke warm.

Try and paint it how you like, many of us lived through it and saw it for what it was (or rather wasn't). To try and paint it in different colours now after the catastrophuq doesn't really help matters.

The problem was, and still is, that however nice and well meaning he is, he really isn't very bright...

We all lived through it. More Labour voters voted to stay than other parties. He did a lot wrong, but I don’t think you can pin Brexit on him. It’s the ridiculous black and white nature of politics that means some can’t cope with someone giving qualified support to something, but that’s more honest than all or nothing stuff.

Arguable...

But the individuals who gave us Brexit are Farage, Cameron and Johnson... the pro Brexit media weren't going to report on Corbyn attending a meeting in Halifax.

All three should be in jail by now.

I do not believe that Corbyn had the power to change the result, regardless of what he said and tbh, would the issue have gone away with a small remain win? nope, we'd have had another vote by now.

The issue for me is that amount of lying and mis direction that went on that has now been normalised in politics
e.g Sunak says he'll spend an extra 75billion on defence, starting today, yet no extra funding has been allowed for this financial year and the 75b takes no account of that the MOD budget isn't frozen and will go up each year in anycase., so how much is really "new" ?

Of course the media don't report on this, its all "Labour won't protect the UK" bollox, a trap laid by the Tories, which Starmer walked right into.

I have a question. It's not political but related. I've never seen a picture of Sunak driving a car. Is that because he's smaller than average and it would be more noticeable if he was in the driving seat? I've assumed it's due to his image advisors. Or am I imagining this?

I'd suggest those who don't rate Corbyn may have been swayed for ideas from the Labour right as much as the Tories (looks at you, James O'Brien).

A really interesting read on this is the book The Prime Minsters We Never Had which gives a much more balanced , nuanced, and fair reading of JC.

Plenty of the Labour Left were anti EU in the 70s and 80s (Mrs T after all was a fan) for really pretty valid reasons. Doesn't mean that they thought it was the right thing to do by the referendum when the landscape had changed. And it certainly doesn't make them like the right wing Brexiteers in values and ideas.

I can't really picture any PM driving a car? Boris on a bike, and running. Cameron walking.

Hmm. You're probably right. I was reflecting on the number of flights, helicopter and plane, and it led me down this byway. I should get up and have some coffee.

...also who did what or not in 2016 is pointless... we cannot go back in time... pro eu voters need to know what Labour will do differently now.

Agreed.

I do think it is a bit odd that given how slim he is , there are never images of him doing purposeful exercise. I think that probably is image management.

This. It's ridiculous to try and pin Brexit on Corbyn with all the lies and misinformation spread by Farage, Johnson and others on the right.

I thought we had moved on from But Jeremy Corbyn.

Corbyn and Starmer appear in the Express together today. A picture with Sunak in front of some tanks and Corbyn and Starmer together. And they are talking about defence. Not even subtle, is it!!

Wow really? And on it goes. I guess they've finally run out of things to say about but Angela Rayner.

.... a simple "we will match Tory spending plans, in fact we will increase to 3% by 2035 as our growth plan kicks in" would have completely removed this line of attack... if Tories can make promises way into the future, so can Labour.

What will happen next is Starmer will v soon mirror Tory "plans" and the right wing media will say he has "u-turned.. again"

Labour are/were ahead on Defence, this may well change... was so easily avoidable.

Tbh this fashion for politicians doing exercise has always been awful. Ronald Reagan jogging. Putin doing judo. Macron football, Johnson doing his perfunctory jog (obviously he did a lap around the block at best look at the size of him) etc and it looks ridiculous so I am glad Sunak is not in his cycling shorts with s determined expression.

It's a male thing. I did not notice Thatcher, Merkel, May or Von Der Leyen get into their Lycra and show us a workout.

Yes. The state the UK is in has nothing to do with Corbyn.

The Leave voters had already swallowed the lies at the point of the last GE and wanted their wishes respected. I don't think Labour ever had a hope of winning against Johnson in 2019. He was unbeatable IMHO. Luckily for us he squandered all of that unbeatableness away.

Weirdly, he got just a very small number of additional voters than May did (when she lost her majority in 2017) yet scored a "landslide"

FPTP really does mis represent what the UK really wants and imho PR would be the first step in improving the UK.

Well but did anyone notice the commitment given to renationalise the railways. Very good news from Labour. It should save a lot of money otherwise being stuffed into shareholders pockets.

It is frustrating and ridiculous that the total number of votes is meaningless, isn't it?

I really wish Starmer would introduce PR as a matter of urgency. But I don't think he will.