Thread 42 Sunak : Ping Pong with the Enemies of the People

[DuncinToffee]

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Maybe he was desperate to witness first hand the moment the Conservatives cancelled the HS2 leg to Manchester whilst they were actually in Manchester.
I would have certainly gone along to watch.

Seriously though I don't expect Police Chiefs to cosy up to fringe elements of political parties.

In which case why did he do it?

Because he could.

Then he must have thought it was appropriate.

Hmm. Well he should not have attended, and he should be resigning

Unbelievable that Watson is a right wing Tory !darling" or has any form of relationship with Daly, unfit for office springs to mind.

No wonder the Police act in the way they do.

But hopefully, at Chief Con level, he won't actually be doing the groundwork for this "investigation" into AR.

Frank Field has died. Proper MP.

So sad. He was a lifelong warrior on welfare issues. They don’t make them like that any more.

@SerendipityJane I disagree.
Truth is the cornerstone of democracy, finances and society. Truth was in evidence even in politics until very recent times.
Of course truth is important, what a strange thing to say .
If you really think that , to quote your post, "Things are just more visible and reported on now" might you consider whether truth is important to Stephen Lawrence's mum, to Jimmy Saville's victims, to the Post office employees, the victims of the contaminated blood ?
I could go on ad infinitum.

One of the presenters on Today this morning described him as thoughtful. It occurred to me that the people I respect, even if I don't agree with them, could all be described as thoughtful. Then I tried to think of a member of the current Cabinet I would describe that way and I couldn't think of any. How the hell did we get here.

I do not think how we got here was very complicated.

The UK is an old country with a lot domestic issues and long term ones at that. These are very difficult to manage.

There is in politics something very attractive in such a situation who says they have simple answers. You abdicate your responsibility on to them, you listen to their simple answers and you believe them. History is littered with elections and politicians like this, and usually it does not matter because simplicity is the cover for someone who is very cognizant of the real challenges that exist.

What happened in the UK is that for the first time that the Conservatives did not know. They decided that they would choose a leader over a set of actual objectives. This was very successful in the sense they won, but with s group of people who were the absolute z list of their party who were really committed to Brexit. Johnson is a great campaigner but he is an empty vessel. Our politics is now empty and devoid of any purpose connected to the people who vote. The UK needs hope and a purpose.

Or it will descend into poverty, rancour, racism and corruption. It is not written in the stars we decline, but we definitely can if we don't have a vision of what it should be like to be in the UK and how people are treated.

As it was with Brexit...

He was also a brexiteer who's vision of Britain outside of the EU was nothing like the piss poor debacle that this lot have presided over.

So much of it everywhere

Thing is though, there was never going to be a good version of Brexit, so his vision was a load of nonsense. And despite his views on welfare, I had no time for him because he was in favour of lowering the abortion limit.

Yes, we mustn't get all dewy eyed about people just because they weren't all bad. That's the sad state of politics at the moment.

He didn't seem a bad sort, but some of his views were still stupid. CF Jeremy Corbyn..

I am not a big Corbyn fan but many of his ideas were far from stupid, IMHO.

No, but he got the BIG one wrong by a country light-year. And so very much bears responsibility for the state the country is in now.

Thing about Corbyn is how he got there. I mean it still seems crazy in retrospect.

His car crash appeal was also predictable. I mean he was a less charismatic version of Tony Benn and less clever. It is was a kind of deranged episode where we had this Bennite photocopy who actually became leader. There was absolutely a reason why Corbyn had never been given any kind of responsibility within the Labour Party. He could campaign but he did not have good political judgment.

He could campaign but he did not have good political judgment.

Didn’t deter Johnson. I do wonder how future historians will view the last eight years and if they’ll call it the era of political lunacy.

No! It was exactly the same flaw. But Britain is a small c conservative country. There was a certain inevitability about the 2019 results

Yes, but Johnson made people laugh. And, obviously, he had the backing of the corrupt media.

Neither of them should have been anywhere near leadership.

Agree. It was awful and has had terrible consequences. I mean Sunak is awful in a different way. He is just not credible. And seems openly cruel.

That is bad and new. I think this characteristic is why the polls are as they are. He is not liked. He could not win his own party. Some said it was race. It may actually have been his character

There was definitely a time in my living memory where being caught out lying or cheating brought consequences.

There have always been corrupt politicians but I do remember a time pre Boris Johnson when a good number of politicians actually thought being honourable was important.

It was the start of the "anti elite" thing wasn't it. We all wanted a Macron! But instead got Trump, Tsipras and Corbyn 🙄

I listened to something on radio 4, years ago now, arguing that allowing the membership to vote for the leader had been a huge mistake.
Previously leaders could be changed quickly and reasonably painlessly (e.g. Thatcher => Major). And because MPs voted for the leader it meant the leaders were people that were respected by their MPs in the HoC and could get things done.

A politician who is popular with party members isn't necessarily going to be popular with the electorate or with their parliamentary party. Plus the leadership elections are a huge distraction.

I do wonder if the parties should go back to the old method. But then their membership numbers would probably tank even more.