How would you react if you saw a 3 yo trying to deliberately step on a cat's tail?

[TotesDelulu]

For context, child is 3.8 (4 this summer), the parent is my friend who was out of sight at the far end of the garden (it's a big garden) making a phone call. Cat is 15 with arthritis and was snoozing in the sun.

I was inside washing up and looking out if the closed kitchen window when I saw child looking down at floor and moving strangely. I stood on tiptoes and moved to the side to get a view of child's feet and realised they were trying to step on the cat's swishing tail. I yelled "[CHILD] STOP IT, YOU DO NOT STEP ON THE CAT'S TAIL" extremely loudly through the window just as the child's foot came down on the end of cat's tail. Child jumped backwards then looked round to see who had shouted. I went and opened back door, crouched down and said "[Child] I need to talk to you" at normal volume and in a normal tone of voice but child ran off toward friend who had heard me shout and come to see what the problem was.

Friend has now got the hump and gone home because a) they don't shout and b) child claims not to have been stepping on tail. I don't usually shout either especially not at other people's DC, but child was outside, no parent in sight, windows and doors shut, and I was worried for my poor old cat and wanted to intervene fast enough to prevent a tail injury!

I am absolutely 100% certain that's what child was doing, I would never have shouted had I not been certain.

So how would anyone else have reacted?

I would do the same. A child of that age is old enough to understand that animals feel pain.
The consequences of children's behaviour not being corrected is all around us nowadays, unfortunately

“We don’t shout”- FFS.

Ask her what she would have done if her child had run off in the direction of a busy road…

As a PP said, the fact that you saw a situation where you reasonably believed that a child, cat or both were going to get hurt overrides every rule in the “gentle parenting” book.

This misses the point. She shouted to stop the cat being injured, not to chastise the child. She then went over to explain in a normal voice why she had had to shout a warning.

Ian Huntley started by pulling legs off spiders and graduated to strangling a puppy.

This. Brat!

At three ?

I'd have done the same. And to be honest, if friend is now offended then she's a twat.

If she wanted to come over again I'd be saying, 'Only if you supervise your child properly. I cannot have them being cruel to my 15 year old cat'.

I'm not desperate to remain friends with someone who prefers to believe a 3 year old over an adult's word. She should have been mortified and apologetic over her child's behaviour.

At three they're still hitting and biting humans at times, I don't think a three year old being tempted by a fluffy tail means he's going to be a sociopath.

You did the right thing. Cruelty is not to be tolerated, and I would give any child the bollocking of a lifetime for it.

This must be a windup. You wouldn’t really shout at a toddler rather than just intervene and teach them would you. All you’ve done is made the child petrified of you with no more understanding about why stepping on the cat would hurt them!

I run a toddler group and don’t know any parents or any of our helpers (who are parents of adult children, before anyone accuses anyone of woke gentle parenting) who would shout rather than stop them. Imagine if a nursery staff did that every time a toddler was about to hurt another child by doing someone either unsafe or unkind, they’d be an adult shouting all the time.

I don’t think Mumsnet can be a representative group.

Your friend sounds like a bit of an idiot. I’d have just said to child ‘friend saw you attempting to hurt her cat that is unacceptable - I would be very disappointed if you had hurt the cat’ and explained why and what could’ve happened if the cat had reacted - my sister ended up very poorly from a cat scratch. I’d have done the same as you op, sounds like a bit of a pampered kid. As for the we don’t shout, I’d have said well we don’t hurt animals. Next time I hope the child isn’t hurt by the animal it annoys because its mother can’t teach them to be kind and actually parent them!!

My sister lets her DS pull on their dogs tails, and poke him in the eyes, basically she lets him be mean to him. And whenever they are visiting me I will call her DS out about it as I have no tolerance for anyone no matter how old they are mistreating or being cruel to pets.

My cat, my rules. Zero tolerance. Poor cat.

"we need to talk about Kevin"

Not normal to try and hurt a cat.

It was done as a split second reaction, and was immediately followed up by trying to do the whole calm explanation thing. I wasn't about to watch through a window whilst my elderly cat got injured - my priority right then was to prevent that, and then to actually speak to the child and explain why we don't step on the cat's tail!

You were 100% in the right.

At almost 4 they are plenty old enough to know better

Hopefully they'll think twice next time.

I think there's a difference between shouting because you otherwise wont be heard, and shouting to intimidate or because you are angry.

it sounds like you shouted because that was the only effective way to stop the child from hurting the cat, which is fair enough. if you'd been next to the child you could have just said "no" sternly and moved the child away. but you weren't, so you had to shout.

i wonder if your friend thinks you were shouting more as a form of discipline than simply as the only way to get the child to stop? For the friendship's sake you could perhaps say "sorry if i scared him, i only shouted because he wouldn't have heard me through the glass otherwise and i needed him to get the message quickly before either your DC or the cat got hurt. i didnt want to upset him."

How else was she going to stop it when there was a wall between them?

Did you actually read the OP? How was she supposed to stop the child and teach them why it was wrong when she’s in a big old house with thick walls and she can’t reach the window? Are you seriously suggesting that she should have let the child stamp on the cat’s tail while she was making her way out to the garden to have a quiet teaching moment?

If you shouted at my child as loudly as you've acknowledged you did, then I would speak to you (away from my child) about that as a separate issue. I would not be happy about someone significantly raising their voice at my child regardless of what had actually happened. However, without question the child is at fault here for hurting/attempting to hurt your cat, and I would believe you above my 3 year old. 3 year olds do mess with animals - that's perfectly normal - and it's just another example of behaviours they need help learning. We have a cat, and my 3 year old frequently needs speaking to about how rough she can be. She's not a particularly naughty or difficult child, she just can't resist chasing a furry animal around the house, and it's slow and steady progress helping her to learn empathy and to respect how others feel, including animals (and her baby brother!). So your reaction was disproportionate for her developmental stage - yes, the child needed speaking to, but not yelled at. That doesn't mean your friend is in the right. She's still the one largely at fault here

And actually, at a nursery there would never be 2 children outside on their own with the only adult to have eyes on them being behind 2 closed doors and out of earshot of a normal speaking voice! In that scenario, watching a child about to seriously hurt another child with no other adult in the picture, would you really just let it happen whilst you made your way outside to explain calmly? Or would you shout to make yourself heard and prevent an injury, before going out to deal with it properly?

If you were inside with the windows closed you hardly had time to get outside and have a calm conversation. The child needed a sharp shock to let them see that they were being watched and to end the behaviour. You interrupted the negative behaviour in the way you needed to and then spoke calmly after. The child knew it was wrong, or they wouldn't be denying it to mum. Got caught out, told off and now doesnt like it. Understandably. None of us like being called out for our mistakes. But you did nothing wrong. And If mum didn't make a deal of it, you and the child would be moving on and having a giggle about something else minutes later.

Same

I shouted at a kid in the park for throwing stones at the ducks once. DH nearly fainted.

I hate anything to do with animal cruelty.

Ridiculous

An almost 4 year old should know that stepping on a cats tail is going to hurt it.

Jesus

Yep I'd have done the same.