Thread 41 How many more MPs will Sunak lose?

[BIossomtoes]

New thread. I took the liberty - the old one was at 999!

All modern culture wars are marked by the intensity of the fight being inversely proportional to the clarity of the definition.

To an extent that can't be coincidence

I do disagree on secularism. It is the template by which most of modern Britain rests: the right have always detested the social changes that came in from the 1960s which removed Victorian Christianity as the basis of running society and they would like it back. It's not too long ago since we had effective morality police by the state and relative secularism is a very good thing. Religious people are not to be equated to secularist thought, thank you

I am pleased to know that horses drink water, hopefully not from polluted rivers

Sunak is distancing himself from Truss

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68834217

I think we should not let our threads be derailed.

He can distance himself all he likes - Conservative members voted for huge unfunded tax cuts. And they vote for that all over again if they get the chance.

Do we know yet how Sunak intends to finance the NI abolition? I can't remember.

Nope he can't answer that question - can only be a tax rise and/or further cuts to public services.

No

.@RishiSunak again insists National Insurance + income tax amount to 'double taxation'.
But asked 3 times by @Keir_Starmer, refuses to deny he would fund abolition of NI via cuts to NHS, state pension or a tax rise.

Surprised the PM didn't shut that down with clear denial.

x.com/paulwaugh/status/1780556318421516763?s=46&t=Uw4lJNwxFZFnX0Xs3doHYg

From Sky politics

Number 10 rejects idea plan to scrap National Insurance is 'unfunded tax cut'

Downing Street has rejected Labour's characterisation of plans to scrap National Insurance contributions as an unfunded tax cut.

However, Number 10 suggested the measure would not be costed by the Office for Budget Responsibility at the next fiscal event.

After Sir Keir Starmer attacked Rishi Sunak's "completely unfunded £46bn promise to scrap National Insurance" during Prime Minister's Questions, a spokesman said: "That is obviously not a costing made by the OBR."

Asked what the real price tag is, they added: "That's a question for the OBR which will assess policies as and when they are announced at future fiscal events."

But he suggested that would not happen at the next event, saying: "It's government policy, but it doesn't have a specific timetable and that is why the OBR is not costing it.

"We're going to make progress on it over a period of time. We'll make progress on this ambition at a number of fiscal events.
"As and when that progress is made, the OBR will put a figure on the announcements as and when they are made. But that number is not a static figure."

The spokesman added: "We've always said that we will do so in a manner that is prudent.
"We want to make significant progress in the next parliament."

are we back to the weasel "fiscal event" as a way to avoid a vote ?

So they'll stick it in their manifesto, fudge the numbers & try to circumvent the OBR altogether.

We really need an independent watchdog costing every manifesto.

The UK Government holds negative net approval ratings on EVERY policy issue prompted.

UK Government Policy Approval Ratings (14 April):

Coronavirus -3%
Defence -9%
Foreign policy -10%
Education -18%
Crime -24%
Economy -25%
Housing -32%
NHS -37%
Immigration -37%

https://x.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1780552196490215615

Is there any comparable historical data ? It all feels so 1979 at the moment. And we know how that ended for the party in power.

@Lion400 I find the main issue with the piece you quoted (did take a while as the writing style was quite unstructured and oddly phrased) was that if this were true, why are so many of the Tory party, who are right of centre by their own admission, from these institutions themselves? Everyone bar Farage at the conference in Brussels which was described as far right went to university, and good ones too. I think the racists like to think they've been to the University Of Life but it's actually usually purely down to locality that they've never worked with someone with different skin or religion to themselves. Ignorance of another isn't always a bad thing and something to take offence from being called, as long as you can recognise it.

I also don't think banning headscarves is the way forward. Although I know there are religious issues with gender (across the board - woman can still be stoned to death in Christianity) any attempt to take agency away from women is not the way forward. Allow women to make their choices in relation to religion and dress. Yes they may be coerced by family and the school may dictate GCSE subjects, but assuming both family and school have covered the basics well, that girl will grow into a woman who can question her faith and make up her own mind as to whether she continues to want to wear a headscarf or if she wants to take a new subject as a mature student. May CofE schools don't offer options due in part to the poor funding by the Tories, but also because Maths is seen in higher regard than Statistics, for example (which could hugely benefit dyscalculia students) or Japanese as a language for dyslexic students (far easier than English to learn pictorially). You could argue these subjects would benefit a far wider range of children across the country.

Am loving the HH argument - I heard that same story on Woman's Hour and it was terrifying. She had 3 daughters IIRC and while he was in prison because he had accosted one of their friends who was a teen (daughter wasn't believed when she reported him, friend finally was and he was arrested and imprisoned) the two older daughters had both been abused yet the law forced the youngest to have contact unsupervised. It really does show the archaic nature of some of these systems. To me it is a no brainer than peadophiles loose all rights to access and control over their children.

Great point! Thank you

Look, if you are going to come on this thread there are those of us who don't find the trans debate amusing or funny.

1. It is not ‘the trans debate’, it’s a concern for the erosion of women’s rights.

2. I do not find the erosion of women’s rights ‘amusing or funny’.

PS. ‘…if you are going to come on this thread..’. Are you the thread police? 👮 🚨

@Lion400 this is a long running thread. We have Labour voters, floating voters and (possibly soon to be ex) Tory voters. We also have posters who have trans people as friends and family. We all try to respect each other's views on all issues. There are very few bunfights. Please bear that in mind.

There is an issue with the NI abolition that Sunak hasn't mentioned. If there is no NI, how will entitlement to the State Pension be calculated? And what happens to NI credits?

None of the parties are covering themselves in glory wrt women's rights. Look at what has happened under the Tories in relation to rape convictions, femicide, misogynistic crime in general. Single mothers and black women are the most deprived in the country. I do not for one minute think myself of my daughter are better off voting Tory. The trans debate is largely more of a debate now than it ever was under Labour because of the Tory party doing nothing to clarify or address any issues. You could argue the Cass report shows the rise in puberty blockers, which happened on the Tory watch, was because the NHS didn't have the funding to help children via CAHMs who should never have been given the experimental drugs without evidence in the first place.

I also don't want to derail the thread to Trans, I suspect my views don't chime well with others on the thread either but I have thought about how this situation arose and why and whether it is currently working for either side. It is not.

I don’t know why this thread has suddenly swerved into a Trans debate (and a somewhat ill tempered one at that). We usually manage to discuss those issues with good grace and respect. I say that as someone who is GC and believes that biological sex cannot be changed. And a Tory voter in the past. Actually……why have I not been dropkicked out of this thread yet….

Because you’re respectful and understand the ethos of this very long running series of threads. It’s not difficult.

I just think using the phrase 'hairy bollocks' isn't in the spirit of these threads and shows a visceral hatred of transwomen that doesn't help anyone, no matter where they stand on the issue.

Now it looks like I was just begging for compliments <shuffles>

Agree @pointythings . You can state your case for Women’s Rights without using derogatory language .