Ethnicity questions from in-laws!!

[Funinthesun20]

My in-laws don’t seem to understand my ethnicity and mostly “where my curly hair comes from?” And that of the kids curly hair and the fact that they tan easily!!

Background: So, I identify (mostly because I look) as a white woman with thick light brown curly hair. My kids (3) one is curly dark haired, two are blonde/light brown looser curls.

My grandad was a black man (Jamaican) , married an Irish white woman, and my dad and aunts and they are light skin but mixed race. My dad married a white woman and had 3 children. We are all light/white skinned but all with brown curly hair.

You could say that we (My dad, me and my siblings are “racially ambiguous looking” as in we are white with something going on!! 😛

My in laws met my grandad a couple of time when he was alive. But after 10 years it still baffles them that he is my grandfather!!
They are by no means racist, more ignorant I guess.

To be honest, since I have been wearing my hair curly (to help the kids love their curls, I needed to love mine and show them that their hair is beautiful) it’s become a thing to comment on, as I guess I do look more ethnic.
Asking “is it natural” “where does that come from?” “How do you get it so curly”

When my brother came home from travelling he had let his hair grow to a full hair of beautiful brown sun kissed curls and he was so unbelievably tanned! And they couldn’t get their heads around it when they saw pictures of him. Again, not in a racist way more in a completely oblivious way as to why he is able to tan so well!

I was blunt with them on Easter Sunday, after they commented on my hair and the kids hair as to where my hair comes from. I just kind of shouted out, well my grandad was black wasn’t he!!
My husband is completely on my side and said i wasn't rude, but firm.
He also doesn’t seem to get why they are so fascinated and perplexed as to how genetics work, and how my grandfather can be black but I am white!
He has spoken them about it and reiterated that my her grandfather was black.

I don’t even know where I’m going with this post! It’s weird for me as I am in all sense a white woman. So I don’t think they can or are being racist to me as I am white like them? (I hope that makes sense?)

Lots of identity politics bs emphasizes those things. And what's more, it groups all non-white people together in a way that is clearly not about cultural heritage but just about rather basic racial categories.

It's not surprising people pick this up since it is everywhere, and what's more it's often presented as the Right On kind of opinion.

Lots of people aren't all that knowledgeable about their family history and heritage, some never become all that interested. I think that's ok really. They don't have some obligation to be interested.

@OutsideLookingOut

German side. Are you black (as you claim) or mixed race? If you are the latter, then you are in cloud cuckoo land.

And for that matter, most black people in Jamaica have European heritage as well, so they may actually have less than 1/8th African DNA. If I recall correctly, most blacks in North America have something like 40% European DNA, and while I've never seen a stat for Jamaicans, I would not be surprised if it's similar.

Back when I was in school, there was a huge push by anti-racists to adopt the one drop rule in anti-racist discourse. I think that's where a lot of this stuff comes from. They would, for example, go through all kinds of famous historical people or modern ones, for a single black ancestor. This was not just random people, the black cultural center in my town was full of this stuff.

This is the kind of thinking that eventually turned into the current antiracist movement. It's funny though, in some cases it approves of this one-drop stuff, but in other cases bringing up a single ancestor, say to get a scholarship or job - will get you labeled a racist.

But it absolutely plays into the same underlying race essentialist categories that you see in neo-nazi movements. Like someone said upthread, it is abundantly clear even on this thread that a lot of people are confused about the differernce between ethnicity, and phenotype.

Are you a believer in the one drop rule?
I see myself as black and most people around me treat me as such

If someone looks white, feels white and is seen as white by society, then they're white.

You know that almost every black person in North America, but your calculation, isn't black at all, they are mixed race?

Race is also a rather arbitrary category, it's defined differently in various places. At one time, people thought of the French and English, or the Irish, as different races. Now they are all just "white".

We're all mixed if you are going to say that any ancestor at any point can make us mixed.

You seem very invested in telling strangers on the internet what race they 'really' are. Don't you think that's for them to state?

What’s the great grandparent relevance in light of the OP?

The OP's children have one black great-grandparent.

How many people commenting on here are mixed race but 'white passing' ? Because if you aren't then you don't know what you're talking about.

I am 'white' even though I am mixed race half and half (not black).
I don't call myself white as I obviously know that I am not but I don't identify as an Asian person so what's left is white.

I married a white person and our children look white. They know they have mixed heritage but they can identify however they like.

Identify as a mixed race person is not easy especially when you look a certain way and it's ridiculous that people are telling us what we should identify as.
What identity as is my business based on my life and experiences and feelings.

Are they generally this level of intelligence about other things in life too, or is it just to do with your race?

If they generally have limited understanding of other stuff I'd say they're just a bit dim. If it's JUST your race then maybe they are racist

Oh I see.

presumably the OPs kids could pic him out in a line up seeing as she saw him at least a few times?

they may have even met him themselves.

So this could be whataboutery... but...

My husband is white. However he speaks with a foreign accent. People ask him where he's from ALL the time.

Is this really any different? Are we not somehow negatively pitting people against each other?

Can we not ask people anything about their heritage at all? I mean generally I don't, for absolute fear of my genuine interest being interpreted as racism. I mean if I met someone who had an accent from 100 miles away I might ask them where they're from, is this different?

I actually have quite a complex cultural history (I think) but I know very very little of it really, and I certainly can't identify with any of it. In 2-3 generations that language, those traditions have been lost or left behind, they're completely unknown to me. Can anyone really identify with anything that they've not actually lived themselves? How can anyone identify with a cultural background that neither they or any living family members have ever 'lived'?

This isn't meant to be a provocative / insulting post, these are genuine questions.

I fear that perversity we're heading for some sort of cultural homogeneity where no-one can discuss anything.

My adult kids are 1/4 not white and have 'international' accents having been born and raised in different countries. They don't look anything like me. They get asked where they are from all the time. I think the fact that it's hard to pinpoint where they are from makes people curious. They don't feel they are 'from' anywhere particularly but it doesn't bother them at all. They find it amusing when people can't work out their background but apart from that they don't give it any thought.

They have a Dad from A a Mum from B , they were born in C , lived most of their childhood in D, have accents from E (god knows where!) And now live in F.

Exactly

If someone was 3/4 black and looked completely black would you call the. Mixed race?

@ggggggooooo

Are you telling me that if a person looked mixed race but had two black parents, then they would be classified as mixed race and not black because the person looks mixed race.

OP's father is mixed race (a direct relative). To claim you are white when you have a mixed race father is a bit odd.

Obama was mixed race, but looks black, so everyone called him black.

"White", "black" and most other descriptors of race are basically made up by us, and they mean different things depending on our culture and learned values. Our skins are not black or white, they are all different shades of rosy/peachy/beige/brown.

The OP "looked" white by skin and hair, until suddenly she stopped straightening her hair, and now for some people it's not that clear.

It really should not matter. But it does, and hence this all discussion.

I think most people are missing the point.

The "one drop" rule was never about whether to define yourself as "black" or "mixed race". It was the excuse for many people in the past to consider you "tainted" by "blackness", "blackness" or "whiteness" not conforming to any specific ethnicity, but their own idea of pureness. A lot of people who call themselves "white" would not be considered "white" by other people. Spaniards from Spain consider ourselves "white", but US Americans tend not to consider Spaniards white and tend to group them with "Latinos", even though Spaniards and most Latin American people look very different. But then US Americans do no consider Irish people "white" either, when most Irish people have a whiter skin and lighter hair than most US Americans. US Americans tend to have a very personal definition of what and who is white which I will not get to analyse here, because it is complex and unpleasant to dig into.

A person with obvious African features but white skin would still be considered black by most people.

Japanese and Korean people have much whiter skin than the ones traditionally considered "white". But they are not considered "white".

"Black" and "White" do not define colour of skin. They tend to define "Western", and more specifically "Western that looks like me and mine". As if that meant anything at all. People are stupid like that.

So the OP's in-laws are letting their true selves show now that the OP has stopped fully looking like "them"... because, shock horror, she has very curly hair. "Like those other black people". So suddenly her having a black grandfather matters... where it didn't seem to matter before.

Yes, human beings are vapid like this. What surprises me is that so many of you are surprised.

What do you think "white" means?

It's not ethnicity, clearly, or culture.

Race isn't a scientific concept.

There are only two coherent possibilities: It's what you look like; or it's pretty undefined and depends on how a number of elements interact in the relevant social environment - the culture you grow up in, your physical appearance, your ethnic background - all of which may be interpreted differently depending on where you live.

Why do you think it's your place to decide other people's race?

Should a 3/4 black woman with brown skin and 4b hair call herself mixed, or is she black to you?

A white woman with blonde hair, blue eyes and rosy cheek has to be mixed race? Not white?

The fact that op had a close relationship with her grandad is somehow irrelevant to you, because she described herself as white?!

I'm so sorry your in-laws are being so rascist. Disgusting

My partner, especially in summer with a deep tan, is frequently mistaken for being either southern european or middle eastern. He is very, very dark, with black hair and tans deeply. I’ve seen people address him in arabic, Italian, and spanish and be flummoxed when he responds in english with a Lancashire accent 😀both his parents consider themselves white and english and have barely left the town they grew up in, although there’s some Romany a generation back on one side and I suspect he’s a (gorgeous) genetic echo of that.

(I, on the other hand, am a redhead with two non-redhead parents - there’s just a plethora of us in the extended family and we pop up from time to time like a genetic party trick).

My point being, isn’t genetics bloody fascinating?

also, (with my cultural historian hat on), this entire thread highlights what a totally arbitrary and socially imposed concept ‘race’ is. Ethnicity is a real thing, of course. So is cultural heritage, family history, etc. But as others upthread have said, the concept of ‘race’ is based on categorising people (negatively, usually) based on the amount of melanin their ancestors had. It’s absurd when you think about it for more than a few seconds and it’s certainly not a historical given. In ancient rome, for example, you were either a roman or a non-roman, regardless of ethnicity - the concept of categorising ‘races’ as we know it didn’t kick in until the 15th century as it was a handy way to justify enslaving people.

This week I read 'The Mixed Race Experience' - recommend it, OP. Besides having many interesting interviews with various multiracial people, it has helpful advice for situations like yours.