What rules of etiquette should I know?

[DuskyEvenings]

Reading another thread I realised that due to my upbringing, it would never occur to me to take wine/flowers to someone's house if they were hosting. (That said, I often offer to cook for us all and take it with me ready prepared, or if it's a whole evening thing where drinking will happen I do always buy more wine than I could possibly drink myself)

It got me wondering how many other unwritten rules I don't know. I'm not concerned that people think I'm rude particularly as all my friends know I would (and often do) do anything to help them out but I realise now that strangers wouldn't know this.

So help me out please oh wise mumsnetters!

Must admit I didn't really know that one either. I also didn't know that the only acceptable reaction when someone announces an engagement, wedding or pregnancy is oh that's wonderful! Even if you don't think it's wonderful at all.

Always stand back and let others go first eg through doors. I forget sometimes and get terrible looks.

The oldest woman in the room is the boss. Stick to that and you won't go far wrong.

Just get hold of a copy of this, @DuskyEvenings:

Debrett's New Guide to Etiquette and Modern Manners https://amzn.eu/d/23gzxxA

Should fill in any gaps - and make fascinating reading.

I feel like lots of people don’t know the correct etiquette for dining i.e

No elbows on the table
No reading at the table (unless dining by yourself)
Placing napkins on laps
No chewing/talking with mouths full
Close your menu as soon as you have decided
Knife and fork together once you have finished your meal
Never take the last thing without offering it out to the rest of the table first
Don’t pour yourself wine/water without offering to pour for others too

Most of these are pointless though. Talking while eating isn't pleasant for others so that's fair enough, but placing your cutlery together is just an arbitrary rule to catch people out. Elbows on the table is simply baffling.

Etiquette should be about politeness and consideration of others, not conforming to rules for no reason.

When eating out don't start eating until everyone has been served with their food (unless someone says please start!)

Have to say, @DuskyEvenings - I’ve known a few people who insist on bringing cooked food when invited to someone else’s house for dinner. It’s hugely annoying. Unless you’re specifically asked to contribute food, you should assume the host has made their own catering arrangements and has invited you to enjoy them.

(Certainly take wine or a suitable small gift - but don’t assume it will be used or consumed during the evening in question. The host may have chosen wine to go with the food, for instance.)

Read the book!

The knife and fork together is an indication that you have finished your course. Helpful to waiting staff or hosts.

Best to avoid saying “better out than in” if you inadvertently burp/fart.

but placing your cutlery together is just an arbitrary rule to catch people out.

Nonsense! In this country at least it’s a clear indication that you’ve finished eating - so no one will offer you more of that course, and your plate can be cleared away. It’s perfectly simple.

There are so many different cultures within cultrures and each has its own etiquette. There isn't one set of rules ulness, as a pp implied, you're trying to show you belong to a certain group - then you may behave in ways that could be baffling or seem snobbish to others but have the joy of feeling like you've won.

All true. But napkin on laps is for linen napkins in a restaurant. If it’s paper napkins (like in pizzeria) then that stays on table (no need to have that on your lap as it can fly off)

menu closed indicates to staff that you’re ready to order

cutlery together indicates you’ve finished your meal

in the UK it should be fork in left and and knife in right hand (if right handed) as you use dominant hand to cut (and fork just to hold), you shouldn’t cut up all your food and then swap fork to the right hand and use right hand to pick up the cut pieces (like a child) but I know in the US and parts of Europe this is the usual way.

I disagree.

Placing your knife and fork together and closing your menu are indicators for waiting staff and are therefore considerate for others. Yes, the world isn’t going to end if you don’t, and there is absolutely bigger things in the world to fret about but that list is still considered good etiquette.

I agree with this. The important bits of etiquette for me are about making people feel good - or avoiding making people feel crap. So saying please and thank you is important as it serves that function. Saying congratulations when people give you good news also does. Why would you piss on their chips by saying you're not happy about their engagement or pregnancy?

My biggest bugbear is when people blow their nose on a napkin and - even worse - leave it for the waiting staff to remove. Napkins are for wiping food from your hands and face. Not for blowing your nose! If you really must, then put it in your pocket and take it with you - you absolutely do not leave it and expect the waiting staff to touch it! Their job is to deal with food, not bodily fluids.

Related to this topic - you do not expel bodily fluids at the dining table. Leave the table and go to the bathroom. It’s ok to blow your nose at other times but you don’t do it in front of other people while they’re eating. Disgusting.

That's not the 'correct etiquette', that's how we teach our kids to have table manners. If you're a grown up, you can decide for yourself, per occasion, whether it would be rude to read at or put your elbows on the table. Just like we teach our kids not to swear, but decide for ourselves, per situation, whether it's appropriate.

Making sure you know the etiquette is making sure you understand the situation, basically. So if I'm going to be a guest, I can think 'What would be a nice thing to do, given that they're providing the dinner?', and then it doesn't matter about etiquette. Box of chocolates, wine, flowers, any gift is fine.

And in general, if you feel you're not sure, look what everybody else is doing, or ask. That's what the grown ups have been doing all this time. You don't need to learn a list! If everyone else brought wine or flowers to a dinner party every time, you'd start to do it.

One thing I never got to grips with is when going to a house party and you bring booze with you, are you expected to only drink what you have brought along, or do you bring booze 'for the party' and therefore whatever is in the kitchen is a free-for-all?

I always felt confused by this, especially as an older teen/early 20s and being invited to my then-boyfriend's house for family parties, because we never hosted or very often went to house parties when I was younger.

I remember my mum giving me a bottle of wine to take with me once, intended as a gift for the hosts. I didn't like wine at that time and I can't remember what I did drink at that party, but I remember the hosts almost pointedly mentioning the wine in a 'why aren't you drinking that' way. Or maybe I was being paranoid. I felt quite mortified though and as though I'd made a social faux pas.

A gentleman should lead a lady down a staircase and follow her up it.

If there are more than six at a dinner table, you don't have to wait to start your food.

Gentlemen at a wedding should not remove their jackets until the bride has given permission.

The bride should stand on the left of the groom.

Always leave the door of the toilet slightly ajar in a home when not in use, and bedroom doors shut.

In a home never cross on the stairs.

When introducing someone the more senior person has the less senior brought to their attention. (Eg “Mr Clark this is my friend Miss Jones”, or if you call them something different, “Dad, this is my friend Miss Jones, Annie this is my Dad, Mr Clark.”)

A gentleman should lead a lady down a staircase and follow her up it
This is so he’s below her on the stairs and can catch her if she slips. The same rule applies if you’re with children or people who are elderly or infirm, regardless of whether you’re male or female. The parent or younger person always stays lower on the stairs in case the child or elderly person slips.

Spot on.

The bride on the left is so that the groom can keep his sword hand free to defend her honour. Amazed the amount of wedding photographers who don't know this (or don't subscribe to ancient traditions).

Nor does it take into consideration a left handed groom. 🤣

No it isn't - putting your cutlery together on the plate is a signal to your host or the waiting staff in a restaurant that you have finished eating.

@fluffycloudalert

And if you don't put your cutlery together, the world stops.

Oh no, hang on. Someone just asks you, and then you tell them. So there's more than one way to get that particular message across. The 'etiquette' is completely expendable.

I didn’t know that if you invite people to join you for a meal at a restaurant for your birthday or another special occasion you are effectively hosting and should be paying for everybody. In my friendship group everyone just pays for themselves, if anything it would be more likely the guests would club together to cover the person whose birthday it is than have the birthday person pick up the entire bill.

Most of these are pointless though
In most cases it’s about being respectful to your elders or being protective of someone who is less able. Or it’s about not being disgusting.