What rules of etiquette should I know?

[DuskyEvenings]

Reading another thread I realised that due to my upbringing, it would never occur to me to take wine/flowers to someone's house if they were hosting. (That said, I often offer to cook for us all and take it with me ready prepared, or if it's a whole evening thing where drinking will happen I do always buy more wine than I could possibly drink myself)

It got me wondering how many other unwritten rules I don't know. I'm not concerned that people think I'm rude particularly as all my friends know I would (and often do) do anything to help them out but I realise now that strangers wouldn't know this.

So help me out please oh wise mumsnetters!

This is the thing. Etiquette varies according to who you're with. It's good etiquette to bow when you meet the king, but you don't do it with your dad. So, whichever group you're in, the etiquette will be different.

Etiquette is outdated, and from the days when social culture and class were very regulated and it was frowned upon to 'get it wrong'. These days it's just important to be respectful, and it's generally appreciated if you're kind.

Etiquette is outdated
I don’t agree. I think it’s still important to have good manners and not be disgusting.

It’s called having manners. It’s an important life skill.

It is important to have good manners and not be disgusting.

But you don't need a list of rules for that. You don't need to be told what to do. Hopefully.

Etiquette isn't having good manners and not being disgusting. It's following guidelines about what you 'should' do, for those who can't manage to work out for themselves which fork to use, and can't think to ask someone.

But you don't need a list of rules for that. You don't need to be told what to do.
I think some people do need to be told what to do. I see people doing disgusting things all the time, especially in restaurants.

Yup, but give them a list of rules. and they're so obedient, those disgusting people, aren't they? They just needed some wise correction from someone who knows better than them?

One of the things I really appreciate about living in London and having a large friendship group of which over half were born and raised outside the UK is that there really is no set etiquette everyone adheres to and so everyone is just very relaxed. Nobody gives a shit what anybody else wants to do with their cutlery or their napkin, and your elbows are your own business. And yet everyone manages not to be disgusting or rude.

In the modern world, forget etiquette and go with manners and being a good friend / human being: both of which should revolve around the people around you feeling happy and ensuring that everyone feels good about themselves whenever you get a chance. Taking a gift to thank your host for hosting is nice, but if they’re your best friend then everything usually just comes out in the wash eventually. Most people, when they’ve invited their friends to come over, want an evening of fun and for their friends to be comfortable, not worrying about niceties. When people on threads like this list a whole spiel of very formal pieces of advice about jackets and cutlery and the right way to eat a bread roll, I just assume they only have acquaintances rather than actual friends to spend time with, which is a little sad.

These days it's just important to be respectful, and it's generally appreciated if you're kind.

That is the very basis of etiquette …

In your opinion. 😂

Is this a thread about tips of common manners or a thread about the merits of specific manners?

I was taught correct table manners and etiquette as a child and taught them to my children in turn. It means that whoever you associate with, you're never going to be embarrassed about not knowing which fork to use etc.
I come from a normal middle class background but as a young woman through colleagues and clients I did associate and dine with upper class and aristocratic people who of course had impeccable manners. I was so glad that I knew how conduct myself properly without feeling awkward, not that those types of people would have made me feel like that because good manners means that you don't make others feel uncomfortable.
I watched the Great British Menu recently and at the end there was a banquet at the ambassador's residence in Paris. As the camera panned around I was surprised to see at such an occasion so many people eating with such bad manners, cutlery in the wrong hands, forks turned upwards and used like a scoop etc.

I was never taught to pass the salt and pepper together, but you’re supposed to keep them paired.

Why wait for everyone to be served? Your food is going cold

I was never taught to pass the salt and pepper together, but you’re supposed to keep them paired
I've never heard that one! I do know that salt pots are considered naff in some circles - the salt should be loose, with a little spoon.

@DuskyEvenings In strictest etiquette, it's considered impolite to arrive with a bottle of wine, as the implication is that the hosts might not be able to provide sufficient wine (this does not apply to very special and expensive bottles of wine, which are considered gifts). It is the done thing to bring a gift, as long as it's not wine.

Nah, that's why you have hot plates. Or that's the point the world does end, according to MIL.

Agreed- much like the conductor putting their baton down is the point when you clap (rather than a pause in the middle of the music just because there is a pause!).

I don't subscribe to too many formalities but here is my take;
If hosting a meal, check for any dietary requirements and base the meal around them.
If hosting a visit, offer tea, coffee etc.
Don't clear plates away until people have all finished eating.
Don't talk with your mouth full.
Don't eat with your mouth open.
Don't slurp.
Don't wipe your fingers on the furniture.
If invited somewhere, ask if you can bring something. If they say no, a token gift of biscuits/chocolate/potted plant is a reasonable gift.
If staying over at someone's house, ask about convenient times to use bathroom, ask what time the household gets up, ask about what to do with bedding.
Offer to wash up/wipe up or to load dishwasher. Don't interrupt people when they're talking*
Don't talk over people *
Don't brag.
Call people by the name or title they ask you to. Ditto if sending post to them.
Hold doors open for people.
Offer your seat to someone in need.

Always pass the port to your left. Actually I think historically by this point the ladies would be adjourned, but the principle stands.

Most etiquette is pretty basic manners. I think it's a good think for people to wipe their mouths on napkins not their sleeves, wait for each other, not talk with mouths full, hold doors and so on.

Wait until everyone has finished, between courses to go to the loo. Don't get up from the table while someone is still eating.

Don't pile up used plates to take them away from the table (and definitely don't scrape food from the plates onto one plate at the table). Don't serve from saucepans at the table. DH's family drive me mad with both of these.

What happens in your opinion, if someone doesn't put their knife and fork together when they've finished eating? If it's something tragic, you have a point about etiquette being necessary. But if things are ok, in your opinion, when someone leaves their knife and fork apart, then why is the etiquette necessary?

I can't wait to hear what tragedies have befallen you..?

If you've been a guest at someone's house it's polite to contact them the following day to say thank you for their hospitality, even if it's just a text.

Definitely don't start eating or drinking until your Host has finished serving.
Oh and on mainland Europe never- but never- but never! -take a sip without all clinking or raising glasses in a Toast first 😁🥂

I wish someone would invent etiquette for supermarket trolleys!

I generally “drive on the left” in the UK and “park” in front of unpopular items. But I’m constantly wondering which way to navigate the aisle, drifting from side to side as I pick up my shopping, swerving around abandoned vehicles and eying up oncoming traffic- who’s got to give way?
😆

@MsFogi I have some le creuset saucepans that are also ovenware, I might put those on the table sometimes. I think that’s fine.