What rules of etiquette should I know?

[DuskyEvenings]

Reading another thread I realised that due to my upbringing, it would never occur to me to take wine/flowers to someone's house if they were hosting. (That said, I often offer to cook for us all and take it with me ready prepared, or if it's a whole evening thing where drinking will happen I do always buy more wine than I could possibly drink myself)

It got me wondering how many other unwritten rules I don't know. I'm not concerned that people think I'm rude particularly as all my friends know I would (and often do) do anything to help them out but I realise now that strangers wouldn't know this.

So help me out please oh wise mumsnetters!

In my culture, we never toast with water but many other cultures seem to have no problem with it. Looking in the eye is very important in the European country I live in - not Italy - but not so important where I come from (you clink your glasses and generally look at them, but if your eyes don't meet for a set amount of time, it's not a big issue, unlike here.)

As a guide to modern manners, Sandi Toksvig’s Peas and Queues is excellent.

I bet there are loads I didn't know until Mumsnet.
Apparently you're not supposed to cut the nose off a wedge of cheese on a cheeseboard (like brie). I've always done this at my in-laws, no idea if they realised or cared!

The "don't pour yourself water without offering to others first " is not one I was ever taught but gradually picked up from noticing others doing it. Took a long time and I sometimes felt I was being "mothered" when I didn't know it!

It absolutely does. I am not from the UK, have never lived there. I have, however, lived in four different countries in my life, and details are different in every one of them.
But "when in Rome..." try to adapt to the locals.

I serve from my cooking pots, though. I'm sorry if some of you would find it disgusting. I just don't have serving bowls and, even if I did, don't want to dirty more pots and bowls than I have to.

Plenty of people think it's important, there's no need to be so dismissive. I also think it depends on who you surround yourself with. I don't know anyone who has poor table manners or can't hold cutlery correctly. I judge people with bad manners, so what. If you and the people you associate with don't think it matters that's fine, if I met you and saw you eating like that I'd inwardly judge you but you'd never know anyway.

LTB!

(jk)

What's wrong with the plate things? It's easier to carry a stack of piled up plates. And all the unwanted bits on one plate is easier to manage too.

It's really not about that though, is it? The point of etiquette is to be considerate to others. It's not a disaster if you don't, but it helps the waiting staff or the host know that you're finished, which is helpful, so why wouldn't you?

Knives and forks together indicates to waiting staff you have finished your meal and they can clear your plate.

Cancel the cheque …

The oldest woman in the room is the boss. Stick to that and you won't go far wrong.
Good advice on your post. Just beware the dangers of miscalculating ages and getting the wrong woman!

@Depressedbarbie

It's not a disaster if you don't, but it helps the waiting staff or the host know that you're finished, which is helpful, so why wouldn't you

Because the positioning of cutlery isn't the only way to communicate. It's one that many people don't use, and nobody who waits on tables has a problem with that. Just people on this thread.

😆

Judge them to be what? If someone has bad table manners, it means they are judged to be... what, thoughtless? Selfish? Poor? Lazy?

The first two. Most of table manners is about stuff like not jabbing your fellow diners with your elbow, not disgusting other people with the sight of half-chewed food, and communicating effectively but silently with the waiters.

Rich people and hard-working people can both have poor table manners, especially when "good" differs based on where in the world you are. I've seen a PhD student working 60 hour weeks put the leg and webbed foot of a duck into her mouth, chew, and spit the bones onto the plate. In the part of China she's from, that's normal.

@Lemevoir there's a difference between going to a party of your (say young) peers where everyone drinks whatever they brought and it's more of a free for all, and going to a more formal dinner party or your boy/girlfriend's parents. I would always want to bring something the host might enjoy. I don't necessarily expect it to be opened that evening, but if you have particular tastes then it's appropriate to bring a bottle for yourself too (not exclusively of course).
For example I know most of my friends like white wine, I prefer red. If going to their house I'll bring white as that's what they drink, if I want to be sure there's red too, I'll bring a bottle of that too.
Your boyfriend's mother was incorrect - she should have accepted the gift and then asked you what you would like to drink.

My top priorities / peeves mainly relate to table manners (DH, I'm looking at you for every single one of these):
Wait until the host / chef sits before you start eating
Don't shovel food in at 100 miles per hour.
Ditto, cutting up food properly so that you don't have to manoeuvre food into your mouth in a sideways action in order to fit it all in.
Use cutlery correctly - in the correct hand, ends covered by palms, prongs down
Scraping a plate or bowl repetitively, or even worse, licking it, is just wrong.
Don't help yourself to seconds until a) everyone else has finished eating, and b) you are invited to by the host / chef because you have previously shovelled food in at 100 mph.
Put cutlery together once finished.
Don't get up to randomly do whatever you want to do whilst other people are still eating.
In a former life, I would also have said not to feed the dog at the table, but then I inadvertently trained the cat to beg

I don't generally get too bothered by other stuff - stairs, introductions, what to bring to parties.

I only recently discovered that I was doing the whole bread roll / butter thing wrong.

The post talked about holding cutlery correctly and judging someone if they didn't. I'm intrigued as to what character traits are strongly correlated with not holding cutlery correctly...

I'm also now intrigued as to what can be correctly deduced about a person who doesn't know how to communicate effectively but silently with waiters. Some of the wait staff in England disappear off never to be seen again, so I'd love to know how to be thoughtful and selfless enough to counter this.

I never insist, just offer.

I'm not concerned, and a lot of the things mentioned I would already do naturally. Strangely enough, I'd go to a banquet or queens garden party and I wouldn't feel nervous as I spend a lot of time learning how others act. (I'm adhd and currently being assessed for autism).

That said, it's the more the informal rules in more informal settings that I feel I've missed something. As a late teen and twenty something I often felt out of place when going to peoples houses etc. I don't like a lot of rules and often rail against pointless ones BUT it does make it easier to fit in when there are ascribed rules.

@AllProperTeaIsTheft What? Why would a woman be any more likely to slip than a man? What a load of outdated, sexist twaddle!
Maxi skirts and wide-legged trousers?

@Menomeno , yes we do. If you have a table of diners of different ages some might be eating very slowly and some quickly, so waiting staff look for all cutlery to be at 4:20.

The holding cutlery correctly thing:

• It sucks to be left-handed in a right-handed world and ideally we'd make things ambidextrous. Dining is one of the things that we can't because if person A holds their knife in the left hand, they will clash elbows with person B to their left when they both try to use their knives. Also, when B reaches for B's drink, they run the risk of being elbowed by A when A is using their knife, resulting in spilt drink. So we all have to eat the right-handed way.
• Fork tines turned upwards run the risk of impaling the roof of one's mouth. Also, you're supposed to spear your food with the fork, not balance it, so it doesn't fall off.
• Holding the soup spoon properly reduces the risk of spillage.

Someone not doing those things is anything from unaware of the rules to outright selfish about whether they cause someone else to spill their drink and uncaring for their own safety.

waiting staff look for all cutlery to be at 4:20.

I thought it was 6.30.
Have I been doing it wrong all this time?

Also, I hate it when people scrape and pile plates at the dining table. It makes me feel a bit queasy. Literally queasy I mean, I'm not trying to be fussy or pretentious, but I just hate seeing the sloppy mess at the dining table, sorry.

In the UK, it's 6.30 @Marynotsocontrary (confirmed by Debretts).

Thank you @HundredMilesAnHour.
That's good to know.