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Thread 40: Sunak -failure to plan, or planning to fail?

1000 replies

DuncinToffee · 23/03/2024 19:15

Or will the fuckitty fuckwits please fuck off

previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5025316-thread-39-sunak-government-by-gaslight?page=40&reply=133987967

credits notonthestairs and dontcallmelen Wine

OP posts:
Thread gallery
95
Piggywaspushed · 29/03/2024 06:44

As well as the inevitable uptick in GE threads , has anyone noticed the uptick in pronatalism threads? Been at least three in the last 48 hours.

The Times and The Telegraph are pushing this agenda too.

fabio12 · 29/03/2024 08:45

TooBigForMyBoots · 28/03/2024 19:39

That's fucking insane.🤯

Why is Jeremy Hosking funding LF to the tune of £millions, but not providing him with an effective, experienced nanny PA?🤔

He's probably employed a dim cousin or a party member's child who can't get a job anywhere else on the side 🙄

Notonthestairs · 29/03/2024 08:52

Piggywaspushed · 29/03/2024 06:44

As well as the inevitable uptick in GE threads , has anyone noticed the uptick in pronatalism threads? Been at least three in the last 48 hours.

The Times and The Telegraph are pushing this agenda too.

Yes, I noticed that yesterday.

Zyq · 29/03/2024 09:53

DuncinToffee · 28/03/2024 18:21

Mohamed Mansour, a Tory party treasurer who gave them £5m last year, is getting a knighthood

Sunak is no longer even bothering to pretend he's cleaning up corruption, is he?

DuncinToffee · 29/03/2024 09:54

Piggywaspushed · 29/03/2024 06:44

As well as the inevitable uptick in GE threads , has anyone noticed the uptick in pronatalism threads? Been at least three in the last 48 hours.

The Times and The Telegraph are pushing this agenda too.

I hadn't noticed, will keep an eye out for them.

Maybe it's the Easter eggs Easter Wink

OP posts:
Zyq · 29/03/2024 09:54

DuncinToffee · 28/03/2024 17:21

Laurence Fox banned from standing as London Mayor candidate after failing to fill in forms properly but Count Binface will stand as candidateGrin

That's hilarious. Wanted to run the capital but can't even fill in a form correctly.

BIossomtoes · 29/03/2024 09:57

So much for This government will have integrity, professionalism and accountability at every level. 😂

IClaudine · 29/03/2024 10:14

Deleted as it is from 2023, I thought it was current. Bloody Twitter!

Zyq · 29/03/2024 10:18

IClaudine · 29/03/2024 10:14

Deleted as it is from 2023, I thought it was current. Bloody Twitter!

Edited

24% support for his party in the polls and he seriously claims the country doesn't want a general election?

He really learnt fast from Johnson about how to lie.

Zyq · 29/03/2024 10:20

Zyq · 29/03/2024 10:18

24% support for his party in the polls and he seriously claims the country doesn't want a general election?

He really learnt fast from Johnson about how to lie.

Agh, posted before I saw@IClaudine's correction. But the point still stands, really, given that the Tories were way behind in the polls all through 2023.

IClaudine · 29/03/2024 10:30

Sorry @Zyq

You are right though. The point still stands.

DuncinToffee · 29/03/2024 10:35

Piggywaspushed · 29/03/2024 06:44

As well as the inevitable uptick in GE threads , has anyone noticed the uptick in pronatalism threads? Been at least three in the last 48 hours.

The Times and The Telegraph are pushing this agenda too.

I think I have spotted one in aibu about child care, new poster, no voting enabled

OP posts:
newnamethanks · 29/03/2024 10:48

Has Nadine been honoured yet? I shan't rest until she gets her just desserts.

Bigcoatlady · 29/03/2024 10:59

I struggle to follow the logic of politicizing pronatalism like this. There's a tiny number of people who feel v strongly about it and who will vote on this issue. Probably not enough to swing a seat in any constituency and presumably quite geographically spread out and not concentrated in Tory target seats.

Then there's probably a second group who thinks it's all very complicated and feel concerned about specific issues like prisons or sports. It's unlikely this is the issue they will vote on if they are more concerned about immigration or the NHS and Labour have already paid lip service to their concerns by softening their position on trans rights.

Then there's people like me who wd consider ourselves mildly trans allies. They may feel concern for the welfare of trans and non binary people and feel mildly sympathetic to parties which say they will respect or promote their rights but balance it against other issues they will vote on. Labour can get more gender critical to keep the more cautious lot above on board. As long as they say they'll improve the NHS they will still get my vote.

Then there's a tiny pop for whom this is critical and who absolutely won't vote for a transphobic party so Labour cd lose their votes but only to the Greens or Lib Drms. The Tories never had their votes and never will.

Even if there are individual votes to win it isn't an electoral strategy. It is possible keeping a culture war going on this is part of a long game. Cynical gits.

Piggywaspushed · 29/03/2024 11:06

I have always assumed people like Cates who claim pronatalism , are interested in appealing to US conservatives with an eye on future career.

Also at the heart of a lot of pronatalism is basic racism. Even my sixth form can spot that.

I have a Cates quote. Will find.

Piggywaspushed · 29/03/2024 11:09

A nation needs to produce enough children to at least maintain its population size. And it must bring those children up to be healthy adults with the skills and the virtues to maintain – or advance – that nation’s prosperity, values and culture and in turn to produce the next generation. I have a degree in genetics and I used to be a biology teacher, and in biology, one of the clearest indicators of a species’ success is its rate of reproduction. How many offspring can be produced, protected from predators, and raised to reach reproductive maturity?
Throughout history, the UK has been a successful nation – our institutions, constitution, industry, education, armed forces and even our health service have all been the envy of the world at different times. But this success has only been possible because successive generations have reproduced themselves, ensuring the continuity and renewal of our economy, culture and national identity.
We can say ‘hurrah’ for contraception, and choice, and women’s rights and gender equality and all these things that have done much good in and of themselves. But there is little point in all the great endeavours of those of us working in politics, in charities, in think tanks, in journalism, in law, in academia and many other areas if society cannot reproduce itself. There is no legacy without reproduction.

Marriage may be far from perfect, but nevertheless it is the best institution that societies have developed for the successful raising of children. The political class has often denigrated marriage as outdated and optional, and even patriarchal and oppressive. And no doubt some marriages are.
But we haven’t practised what we preached. Marriage rates in high income groups have remained high, and divorce rates low, and privileged children have therefore largely been protected from the tragic consequences of family breakdown. Meanwhile, amongst low income groups marriage rates have completely collapsed and children who are already disadvantaged face the additional disadvantage of family breakdown and instability. Marriage has become a middle-class secret and as a political class we have failed to be honest about its advantages for children.

Those were the edited highlights...

AdamRyan · 29/03/2024 11:13

Piggywaspushed · 29/03/2024 11:06

I have always assumed people like Cates who claim pronatalism , are interested in appealing to US conservatives with an eye on future career.

Also at the heart of a lot of pronatalism is basic racism. Even my sixth form can spot that.

I have a Cates quote. Will find.

It is racism. I also think it's a dog whistle to "great replacement theory"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/08/a-deadly-ideology-how-the-great-replacement-theory-went-mainstream

I think unfortunately our politicians have seen the benefits Trump got from actively courting conspiracy theories like Q Anon and are trying the same thing here. It's gross. I see echoes of it everywhere.

A deadly ideology: how the ‘great replacement theory’ went mainstream

The alleged Buffalo shooter was said to have been inspired by the racist conspiracy, which has been embraced by rightwing politicians in the US and Europe – as well as Fox News

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/08/a-deadly-ideology-how-the-great-replacement-theory-went-mainstream

Piggywaspushed · 29/03/2024 11:13

Bigcoatlady · 29/03/2024 10:59

I struggle to follow the logic of politicizing pronatalism like this. There's a tiny number of people who feel v strongly about it and who will vote on this issue. Probably not enough to swing a seat in any constituency and presumably quite geographically spread out and not concentrated in Tory target seats.

Then there's probably a second group who thinks it's all very complicated and feel concerned about specific issues like prisons or sports. It's unlikely this is the issue they will vote on if they are more concerned about immigration or the NHS and Labour have already paid lip service to their concerns by softening their position on trans rights.

Then there's people like me who wd consider ourselves mildly trans allies. They may feel concern for the welfare of trans and non binary people and feel mildly sympathetic to parties which say they will respect or promote their rights but balance it against other issues they will vote on. Labour can get more gender critical to keep the more cautious lot above on board. As long as they say they'll improve the NHS they will still get my vote.

Then there's a tiny pop for whom this is critical and who absolutely won't vote for a transphobic party so Labour cd lose their votes but only to the Greens or Lib Drms. The Tories never had their votes and never will.

Even if there are individual votes to win it isn't an electoral strategy. It is possible keeping a culture war going on this is part of a long game. Cynical gits.

I agree with all you say - but that's not pronatalism is it? There's a Venn diagram which includes the more right leaning GCs and pronatalists.

Bigcoatlady · 29/03/2024 11:14

Thanks @Piggywaspushed. That's what I suspected. And I agree with your sixth form re racism.

But it's really sad that this position is coopting 'feminism' as was. Time was all flavours of feminist could see this shit a mile off.

Piggywaspushed · 29/03/2024 11:17

Hah , not so much when my sixth form try to remember who says this and say ' oh, it's the really attractive woman MP'.

Zonder · 29/03/2024 11:19

DuncinToffee · 29/03/2024 10:35

I think I have spotted one in aibu about child care, new poster, no voting enabled

You were correct - it's been taken down.

Bigcoatlady · 29/03/2024 11:19

I think the circles are getting dangerously close - a lot of the fear re TWAW promotes an essentialist view of women as people who give birth and a lot of the GC fear in recent years has focused on TW discussing menstrual cycles, menopause and conversely opposing TM using terms like chest feeding for feeding their babies etc and coopting women's lived experience. This takes us way beyond fears for women's safety into territory where what is critical is defining female humans as those capable of the birthing role in reproduction.

IClaudine · 29/03/2024 11:19

DuncinToffee · 29/03/2024 10:35

I think I have spotted one in aibu about child care, new poster, no voting enabled

Yep, been taken down if it is the one I saw earlier. ETA: actually, think the one I saw is different as was not in AIBU.

With all the anti-Labour threads, it is always worth doing an advance search to check the OP before engaging.

I am trying to stay off MN for Easter as need to do something constructive! Whether I will succeed...have a lovely Easter weekend everyone.🥰

RafaistheKingofClay · 29/03/2024 11:29

If it’s the one I posted on, then it’s disappeared from my TIO. Or maybe I didn’t actually post on that one.

There was a childcare one yesterday too.

AdamRyan · 29/03/2024 11:30

Bigcoatlady · 29/03/2024 11:19

I think the circles are getting dangerously close - a lot of the fear re TWAW promotes an essentialist view of women as people who give birth and a lot of the GC fear in recent years has focused on TW discussing menstrual cycles, menopause and conversely opposing TM using terms like chest feeding for feeding their babies etc and coopting women's lived experience. This takes us way beyond fears for women's safety into territory where what is critical is defining female humans as those capable of the birthing role in reproduction.

Yes. I'm not sure how to articulate this clearly so bear with me if it's confusing. The "lactating trans woman" one recently for me rang a lot of alarm bells. It was very conspiracy theory based and more about the symbolic role of women as mothers than any direct threat to women or children. There was precisely no evidence that any trans woman can lactate enough to feed a baby, let alone that lots of them are doing this and women are being pushed out and babies fed on drug laden trans milk.

Yet a lot of posters were up in arms Confused and there were gazillions of threads on it. Really very odd.

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