DD(13) saying she doesn’t want to come on holiday with us next week

[PinkCamellia]

I posted earlier about an upcoming trip to Iceland but thought this warranted a separate post. I don’t normally make a fuss of my birthday but as it’s my 40th and it’s been a really difficult few years, I’ve booked for me and teen/young adult DC to go for four days to Iceland.

At the time I booked, DD wanted us to go to a particular European country and was upset with me for choosing Iceland. Since then, she periodically says she doesn’t want to come and has even cried at the thought of coming. She says she doesn’t want to do any of the activities I’m planning and there’s nothing she wants to do there. I’ve tried selling it to her that we’ll eat nice food, so interesting things, be in beautiful scenery but she says she doesn’t care about any of that.

I’m so worried about her at the moment. Since hitting 13, things have unraveled for her. She’s completely stopped attending school and does nothing except play on her computer with her friends. She has no interests except gaming and baking and she’s put on a lot of weight in a short time. I feel like she must be depressed but she says she’s not. I think she might be ASD and we are awaiting an assessment.

What do I do? It won’t be the same without her and I worry she will regret not coming but equally the prospect of dragging her round or being stuck in the hotel with her doesn’t feel great either. Feeling really stressed and sad that my birthday won’t be what I hoped. And of course so worried about DD 😔

Ok, she may be ND but she’s definitely old enough to know that ruining your birthday is not on. Crying and complaining is all very well but to me it’s starting to sound manipulative. She’s ruling what you can do and there seems to be very few boundaries to her lifestyle.
Is she going to carry on doing this whenever she’s not the one telling you what she wants?

I don't think it's ok to say "don't worry about the phone" to the OP. Very few of us grew up in the age of smartphones and the wall to wall diversions offered on tiktok - never mind the online communities she could get into. If using her phone helps at times (and I'm not suggesting getting rid of it altogether) that's good, but the OP is describing it being all she does all day and that is not helping her.

OP please don't feel guilty about booking the break. Occasionally you are allowed to put yourself first and you weren't to know it would cause this amount of repercussions.

Also as well as possibly being ND remember she is 13. Not an age well known for their ability to put others first and demonstrate emotional intelligence. So ideally she wouldn't be making you feel guilty about this, but try not to let it stick.

DD has somewhere safe to stay. Is she happy enough to stay with DGPs ?

Thank you @Garmadon, I really needed to hear that. I’m probably a little addicted to my phone too. Not that I’m on it all day, every day but I will use it throughout the day, whenever I’m not doing anything else. I would rather scroll than watch tv but I’m reading a lot of history, science, feminism, politics, news etc. plus making lists, sorting stuff for the house renovation, online shopping so it doesn’t feel like a waste of time iyswim.

Thanks for reminding me that I don’t have to grieve. My DC are great kids and I’m lucky to have them. Happy Mothers Day to you too 💐

I don’t want anyone to get the idea that I just leave her to it. I regularly have conversations with her about the role phone use and social media have on our MH and how things have changed since smart phones became mainstream. I encourage her to do new things and if she shows an interest in something, I get her the things she needs. There was a period of diamond painting for example but she had music playing on her phone in the background. She’s also learning piano but the room it’s in is being redecorated at the moment so she hasn’t played for a couple of months.

Latest is she’s reluctantly coming but will spend most of the time in the apartment. She came to this decision on her own. I just hope she doesn’t change her mind again 🤞

Not at all, and I agree it’s good to hear different perspectives. You’ve expressed it respectfully which is refreshing

Tbh OP, as staying with your parents is an option, I’d suggest that she does that. This is your special birthday trip and you should be able to fully enjoy it, not be worrying about her refusing to do certain things, etc. You’re entitled to a treat. 💐

This. I’m amazed by the number of thread anxiously worrying about a teen not wanting to do something and acting like they have the power of veto. They don’t. She goes on the holiday, end of. Fresh air and a change of scenery will do her good.

Generally I’d agree with you @GoodnightAdeline but this is the OP’s birthday treat and if her DD is going to make a big fuss and potentially inhibit them from doing what they want to, what’s the point?

Would she be happy at her DGPs?
Ultimately she clearly doesn't want to go and if she does and doesn't do the trips, then it's not just her but her Dsis who are missing out.

I think you have this vision in your head that she will go and enjoy it and I think you need to accept that is unlikely to happen. She may have forced herself to say yes so as to try to do the right thing for you, but with a flight and travel she is unlikely to be able to self regulate for most of the trip.

She may be disappointed if she doesn't go, but that in itself is a hood lesson for the future if she can force herself through uncomfortable feelings ( NB I don't know how possible that is with Autism).

My DGD is diagnosed ASD and if you forced her to do something like go on a holiday she didn't want to go on it would be miserable for all. No doubt your DD cannot help the way she feels and the anxiety of a change in environment is causing her problems. I think I would tell her you would love her to come but don't force her if there are other options like staying with GPS.

I am not sure a lot of people on this thread get how some people with ASD struggle with things like holidays. Also for many of them screens help to regulate their senses so just removing those is not a magic fix.

@rookiemere That’s what I’m wondering too. They can’t leave a 13-year-old alone for hours in the apartment.

@Cornishclio I think a parental co tell app would be the best solution for the screen time, she can just reduce it and encourage her DD to do something else doing that time, rather than take the phone away.

I am not sure a lot of people on this thread get how some people with ASD struggle with things like holidays. Also for many of them screens help to regulate their senses so just removing those is not a magic fix.

I have two neurodivergent children, yes they find holidays difficult in different ways, if they had their way they’d never leave the house much less the country and would spend 18 hours a day on screens. As their parent it’s my job to help them through that.

We go on holiday, carefully planned to accommodate their needs, but we go and I help them deal with lack of regulation. We find alternatives to screen time - sensory activities, things to up-regulate and down-regulate, sitting on a screen isn’t regulating, it’s numbing, and that isn’t helpful in the long term.

I don’t fight every battle with them, but some need to be fought.

I’d probably say the same if I only had my eldest dc, or children like him.
Some need to be pushed to do things and need firm boundaries.

Others, like my dd, are demand avoidant, and putting them under pressure only ramps up their anxiety and reduces their ability to cope. I doubt I’d get my dd on a plane if she wasn’t coping, she’d be in such a state that I doubt they’d take her on board as it wouldn’t be safe. I wouldn’t be able to restrain her, she’s too big. I’m not sure exactly how I could make her go, and if I did, it would be awful for her and us.

She isn’t spoilt. She would feel deeply guilty and devastated by it. But no matter what we put in place, she wouldn’t go if she couldn’t cope. And if she did, we’d be stuck in a hotel room dealing with explosive meltdowns the entire time.

@Jellycatspyjamas I think the issue with this particular holiday though is it's based on what OP wants to do. I'm not blaming her for this as - I assume - a single DP she is entitled to have a holiday she wants for her 40th.

Maybe future holidays can be based around what is best suited for DD but this one is already booked and paid for so it's too late to turn it into something that is 100% suitable for the DD.

With a demand avoidant child, I find with the screens that they will eventually do other things if left to their own devices.

With my eldest, it isn’t a demand avoidance issue, he is using the gaming to regulate himself but also needs breaks from it. He would game in his pants all day if left to it. My demand avoidant dc will shut down, and only gradually come out of it in her own time as she recalibrates and demands are reduced.

We face a lot of judgement when we parent like this, OP. I’ve had family recently very critical and it’s damaged family relationships. But we have to put our dc fist and we know them best. Their mental health is paramount, above all else.

I know the feeling of ‘we can never do anything nice’ and it’s ok to feel that way. I had a birthday where all I wanted was to go swimming and out for lunch and I couldn’t because one child didn’t manage it. It was shit. But it’s absolutely not manipulative on their part.

Does she do any school work at all? As in works from home and sends work in? Or does she just play games on watch Tiktok all day on her phone?

I wouldn’t rush to label her ASD etc. At her age I had bad PMT (doctors didn’t know about it then) which when I finally got diagnosed and put on pill for at 16 really evened me out. Not as extreme as your DD but certainly bad mood swings related to puberty.

Not sure what I’d do around this holiday but is there anything you can do to sell it to her or arrange something to do for her whilst you’re there?

Im Probably harsh.
I'd remove the computer, and wouldn't get a choice re attending school or going on Holiday. Shes 13! Not 17 /18

@Wheresthescissors

Her daughter is in an unstable position; undiagnosed, without appropriate support, not attending school etc etc.

Removing something she stims with to calm down is crackers right now.

What I suggested is to not worry, and to gradually move her over to other things she can do with her hands or other activities. Preferably whenever her health is not hanging on a cliff edge.

@Cornishclio

Thank you so much for this.

Myself and the DC are autistic. Preparing for our summer holiday starts now - making sure all clothes are feeling ok, labels off, ironed and tumbled…. Preparing plans for the entire holiday, looking at photos, videos and maps to familiarise ourselves… practising activities we may not be used to doing… organising disability assistance at the airport… endless lists. And we are ALL high functioning/Asperger's type!!

Largely we go to the same destinations on rotation, and try and stay in the same room or apartment. Even then, it’s a big undertaking.

As I explained before going to an unknown destination, with unpleasant cold weather and new activities is really difficult…

I have huge compassion for the OP’s daughter and her whole family. It’s very difficult to work through.

@Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain

I wouldn’t rush to label her ASD etc. At her age I had bad PMT (doctors didn’t know about it then) which when I finally got diagnosed and put on pill for at 16 really evened me out. Not as extreme as your DD but certainly bad mood swings related to puberty.

I would. If she’s got ASD she’s at higher risk of lack of educational attainment, issues with work, mental health issues, assault, and also there is comorbidity of autoimmune issues (including gynae issues) and epilepsy which is more likely to be picked up by gp as they know to look out for them…

So I really can’t emphasise how important assessment is for improvement in quality of life and implementation of appropriate support if there are clear indicators.

I agree with this. Don't think she's old enough to be making decisions regarding attending school or not or going on the holiday. Especially with school, she can't possibly fully understand the consequences and how it might impact her i future.

THIS ALL DAY EVERY DAY.
I am an autistic woman diagnosed at 17.
I went to a "special college" between 17 and 18 to help me learn how to function in society. I am now 34 and a half and a working professional as well as a married mum of 2. To give background, I know what I'm talking about, I have lived experience!
Around 3/5ths of the boys that were there are total gaming addicts, no jobs, no prospects and mothers who haven't put any restrictions in place because "it's their coping strategy" it's good to "regulate them" are now pulling thier hair out because they have men-children who cannot support themselves and do nothing but game, have no social skills or education. Is this what I pay my taxes for? I bloody think not!!

She isn't going to school? How are you getting away with that?

As for the holiday..... She is 13 and she is going. That's that.

@Rachel757677 maybe read the thread? Or at least the OPs posts? There's a lot going on here.