Angela Rayner - political hypocrite, yes or no?

[Agnes12]

Whatever the ins and outs, Angela says she is “proud” to have bought her council house 20 years ago under RTB. Angela has been a long-term Labour supporter and has come up through the Labour/Trade Union movement. I find it quite surprising that she has then bought a state owned asset, later sold at a profit.

I have never agreed with RTB but recognise for if you are given that opportunity you are probably going to take it. However for someone who purports to be a socialist isn’t this a tad hypocritical? Or doesn’t it matter and she should be allowed to take advantage of the scheme as she qualified?

She could quite easily have lived separately from her husband, she’d have been far from alone. Just because her children were registered at her husband’s address doesn’t mean they lived there. Your option a is nonsensical and based on anecdote.

@1dayatatime

Sorry but thats not "evidence" its hear say and your opinion, which is clear that she is guilty.

The only bit that might come under the title of evidence is the statements of neighbours but unless they can say "she was always here, 7 days a week and we have it all on camera" then its easily questioned.
She only has to stay 4 nights per week at her original home and 3 with her husband and she meets the primary residence test.
I don't know about you but i wouldn't know if the partner of one of my neighbours stay there FT, why would i? who takes notes?

Her brother stays with her? big deal! its a 2 bed house.

Like i said up thread, if she has bills in her name and she sticks to her story, backed up by her brother, i cannot see how anyone can disprove anything different.

But like i said, if she has evaded taxes, she should feel the full force of the law

I listened to the podcast as suggested upthread. Angela clearly had a difficult and chaotic childhood and I admired her candour in talking about it.

To the present, Angela says she received a 25% discount when she bought her council house and that,

“Labour believes those who live in a council house should have the opportunity to own their own home. We’ve said we’ll review the unfair additional market discounts of up to 60% the Tories introduced in 2012, long after I was able to exercise the right to buy (25%), under the old system. That’s not hypocrisy, it’s the right thing to do”.
“But the problem with the right to buy was never ordinary people’s dreams of owning their own home - it was that council housing stock was sold off and then not replaced. It’s helped fuel the housing crisis”.

I couldnt agree more with her last sentence. And this was completely obvious by 2007 and indeed had been predicted from the time Margaret Thatcher’s government introduced it.

So based on the above RTB is now official Labour policy.

@Alexandra2001

"Sorry but thats not "evidence" its hear say and your opinion, which is clear that she is guilty."

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FFS - the point that she didn't pay CGT is not hear say or my opinion - it is what Angela Rayner herself confirmed on her twitter feed because it was her principal private residence. I mean what more do you want?

Equally she stated on her twitter feed that after getting married she continued to live separately to her husband. Legally married couples and civil partners who are not separated are treated as if they are just one individual. They are only entitled to designate one property at a time between them as a private residence. So the only way she could legally choose to be registered as living separately to her husband is if she separated from her husband immediately after getting married.

As for your point that neighbours statements should require video evidence to back them up, then this is really getting batshit crazy. In a murder trial (which let's be honest has a higher burden of proof than tax evasion) witness statements do not require video evidence to back them up, cross examination yes but video evidence of what I claimed to have seen - seriously??

But what I do find interesting is how politics has become so polarised and entrenched that people in different camps cannot even consider the possibility that their favoured party/ politician or group could do any wrong.

Just like the Trump supporters who dismiss his sexual assaults and illegal financial activities as fake news or conspiracy, there are posters on this thread who cannot even consider or have an open mind that maybe just maybe Angela Rayner falsely stated on the electoral register that she lived at her old house after getting married so that she could avoid paying CGT when she sold it.

In the event that HMRC did find in any investigation that she fraudulently avoided paying CGT those same supporters would argue it's a Conservative / establishment conspiracy set up.

Such political polarisation and entrenched views on both sides is why democracy is sadly on its last legs in the West.

Angela Rayner

I bought my council house back in 2007.

I owned my own home, lived there, paid the bills there and was registered to vote there, prior to selling the house in 2015.

All before I was an MP…

I've never been a ‘landlady’, owned a property portfolio or been a non-dom.

As with the majority of ordinary people who sell their own homes, I was not liable for capital gains tax because it was my home and the only one I owned.

My husband already owned his own home independently and I had an older child from a previous relationship.

Our son was born just 23 weeks into my pregnancy and spent eight months in intensive care. He is legally blind.

We mutually decided to maintain our existing residences to reflect our circumstances.

Every family is different but it worked for us and we brought up our boys in a caring environment, surrounded by love.

A wide network of friends and family were also there to support us, including my brother. He’d served in Iraq and was a dab hand at DIY.

For all the unhealthy interest taken in my family by Lord Ashcroft and his friends, there is no suggestion any rules have been broken.

Just a constant stream of smears from the usual suspects.

And if you do not think this is a smear campaign, Guido Fawkes and GB news have actually got hold of Rayner's son's birth certificate and put it on SM and tv.

And if you do not think this is a smear campaign, Guido Fawkes and GB news have actually got hold of Rayner's son's birth certificate and put it on SM and tv

That is really disgusting. If they think she has done anything wrong, just report to HMRC and let them investigate.

Legally married couples and civil partners who are not separated are treated as if they are just one individual. They are only entitled to designate one property at a time between them as a private residence.

How many times do you have to be told that isn’t true? Please stop repeating nonsense.

No. The whole story was created by someone who is one, and who is ultra rich..

Sorry @1dayatatime but i sold a house in 2021, made a profit of 350k, i didn't pay any CGT ... is that evidence of tax evasion? or is the fact that it was my main residence the reason i never paid CGT?? which of course is Rayners position.
Do i need to provide evidence to HMRC? nope.

There needs to be evidence that the house she bought wasn't her main residence, until then, its hearsay.

As for "Polarisation?" I have repeatedly said she should be prosecuted and resign if she is guilty of fraud but atm she is innocent until proven guilty..... everything so far points only to supposition and gossip.

Such political polarisation and entrenched views on both sides is why democracy is sadly on its last legs in the West

I'd advise that you look at your own posts before accusing others of this, it all comes down to "evidence" or lack off......

@BIossomtoes

This is not "repeating nonsense" it is simply referencing UK legislation.

Under the Taxation of Chargeable Gains Act 1992, spouses and civil partners may have only one residence or main residence between them whilst they are living together (TCGA 1992, s. 222(6)(a)).

Different rules apply for couples that have separated or are going through a divorce.

library.croneri.co.uk/cch_uk/btr/546-000

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Look I understand that you may have political sympathies with Angela Rayner. But much like the Trump supporters who refuse to believe that he has done any wrong and dismiss any accusation as establishment conspiracy are your views so entrenched that you cannot accept that the electoral registration of Angela Rayner at her owned house rather than that of her new husband on the basis that she chose to live separately and therefore avoided CGT looks highly suspicious and warrants further investigation by HMRC?

Did you read what you posted because it doesn't say what you think it says:

Under the Taxation of Chargeable Gains Act 1992, spouses and civil partners may have only one residence or main residence between them whilst they are living together (TCGA 1992, s. 222(6)(a)).

@AdamRyan

"Whilst they are living together" - this gets to the heart of the matter.

Did AR on getting married then choose to continue to live separately to her husband and subsequently her children, as she has claimed. Which then would legitimately allow her to avoid paying CGT on the sale of her house. Or
Did AR on getting married, actually live with her husband and children whilst falsely claiming she was living at her old house. This would mean that she fraudulently avoided paying CGT.

It's one or the other but I would add that in my opinion it is certainly unusual/ suspicious that any woman on getting married then immediately chooses to live in a separate house to that of her husband and children.

Either way it should be investigated by HMRC.

That said even if HMRC did investigate and did find that she fraudulently avoided CGT many of the posters are so entrenched in their political views they would see this as some form of set up / establishment conspiracy.

Honestly it is like having a discussion with Trump supporters who refuse to believe either the accusations or the proven court judgements against him as with fake news or conspiracy.

Did you read the statement blossom posted? It makes sense to me.
I live separately to DP, through circumstance not choice. You can't judge people on the basis of what you think is "normal".

Also you have no idea if HMRC are/have investigated.

It's not like Trump supporters as there is no proof of this. You are behaving like a Trump supporter yourself by insisting she's done something wrong, when the reality is if you want to know about dodgy tax, just look at the Tories.

But before HMRC investigate Angela Rayner, and any qqqittance she may or may not have screwed out of the UK taxpayer, mqaybe they should look into the filthy murky depths of dodgy Tory dosh. If there's a queue, and they're going by quantity, she sure as hell won't be at the front of it. How's the creative writing course going 1dayatatime?

I have absolutely no doubt that there are Conservative politicians that have both fraudulently avoided tax.

What astonishes me is that certain posters are so entrenched in their own political views that they cannot even accept that it is also possible for a Labour politician to have also fraudulently avoided paying.

It should be the case that fraudulent tax claims should be investigated regardless of the political position of the party.

Lastly creative writing is a sad attempt at a smear. All I have done is quote primary legislation and AR own twitter comments and to state that it is highly unusual for a woman whose has recently got married to live separately to her new husband.

If Labour had no chance of winning the election, I doubt this would have been raised. Even less chance if it was a man.

Everyone should be liable to a full and thorough HMRC investigation if there is the possibility of tax evasion, irrespective of their occupation.

They should do both concurrently.

I have not read the full thread however, the thought at the time as I recall was to level up and give council tenants the opportunity to own their own property and invest and thus take pride in their community. The problem was the government didn't replace these homes and many previous tenants, now owners,were able to afford to buy elsewhere and become landlords through buy to let schemes so breaking the community. At least Angela Rayner has personal experience of living through hard times and has understanding..unlike many others. Ignoring a gift horse/ business opportunity would be insulting to any intelligent person..intelligence is not confined to all public school pupils and vice versa

These multi millionaires have no experience of going without anything other than love or friendship perhaps? It doesn't count when you can easily afford therapy though

I had to laugh at this comment, myself and @BIossomtoes have both said that IF she is found to have acted fraudulently, AR should be punished according to the law and lose her seat too... what more do you want? no one has said anything to the contrary.

But without evidence, HMRC cannot go around investigating people because of hearsay.

It should be the case that fraudulent tax claims should be investigated regardless of the political position of the party

Indeed they should & in that statement, you make clear your views on this subject - AR is guilty.

No evidence, not a shred of it but guilty nonetheless.

"Highly unusual for a woman who has recently got married"

I’m still trying to get my head around the fact that the Labour Party has now adopted one of Mrs Thatcher’s flagship policies. Are they saying she was right all along?

I thought Dennis and Margaret lived together?

The Labour party has always supported RTB, Blair certainly never changed it.

Yes I suppose that’s true that the Blair governments didn’t repeal it. I guess I was just surprised to see it stated as actual Labour policy rather than something they’d inherited which could not be changed at the time, as they had other priorities in the late 90’s. Just like I guess it’s too late to reverse the energy and utility privatisations.