Angela Rayner - political hypocrite, yes or no?

[Agnes12]

Whatever the ins and outs, Angela says she is “proud” to have bought her council house 20 years ago under RTB. Angela has been a long-term Labour supporter and has come up through the Labour/Trade Union movement. I find it quite surprising that she has then bought a state owned asset, later sold at a profit.

I have never agreed with RTB but recognise for if you are given that opportunity you are probably going to take it. However for someone who purports to be a socialist isn’t this a tad hypocritical? Or doesn’t it matter and she should be allowed to take advantage of the scheme as she qualified?

I didn't realise the police would investigate someone as a result of neighbours gossip. I'm going to refer our local cops to the school gates, lots of tasty titbits to follow up there. I wonder if AR has ever parked in someone else's space? That's got to be worth wasting police time and expense on.

That former neighbour’s really got it in for her, hasn’t she? I wonder what rattled her cage?

@BIossomtoes

"She maintains there’s nothing to admit and no bill to pay. And, judging by the length of time the second investigation has been going on and the failure of the first one to find anything, my inclination is to believe her."

On a wider point what worries me is the polarisation and entrenchment of political views on both the left and the right. There has been a strong erosion of critical independent thinking from voters which in turn threatens the proper functioning of democracy. I don't think this is driven so much as a strong belief in your own side's position but rather anger and hatred of the other side.

For example, looking at AR do I think on balance and objectively that she tried to avoid capital gains tax in the sale of her house and falsely claimed it was her principal residence? Yes I do.

Equally do I think that Donald Trump illegally paid money from his company account as hush money to a porn actress? Yes I do.

Yet there are people on both sides of the political spectrum who are so far down their political rabbit hole that refuse to objectively consider or critically think that their side could have done wrong. For example by claiming that the Trump trial is a false political witch hunt organised by the liberal left or that AJ was genuinely living at her original home despite being married and that this is a political witch hunt by the right.

Comparing Rayner's situation to Trump's is bonkers.

Rayner has not been charged with anything and is not being tried by the Courts. Except the imaginary Court inside Dan Hodges' pea brain, perhaps.

@IClaudine

I agree that in one case there is a full legal trial and the other simply an investigation.

However the entrenched position, lack of objective critical thinking leading to a refusal to believe that their "side" on the balance of probability has done any wrong is the same.

There is nothing to believe at the moment, Rayner got cleared in the first investigation and it is unclear what this second investigation is about.

Must say that I didn't expect a 'whatabout Trump' 😂

The lack of critical thinking lies in assuming guilt in the face of the lack of any evidence. My inclination to believe there’s nothing to see here is based on that. Have we stopped operating on the principle of innocent until proved guilty?

@BIossomtoes

"Have we stopped operating on the principle of innocent until proved guilty?"

Not at all, however it is acceptable and common practice to have an opinion based on the information available on whether a person is in the wrong / committed an offence or not - whether that is the Depp v Heard trial or OJ Simpson.

What is concerning is how entrenched political views seems to override objective critical thinking.

For example "I'm a Labour voter so AR is innocent and it's a witch hunt whereas as Trump is definitely guilty" or vice versa. What is rarer is for someone to express an opinion that both have committed an offence or neither have.

@DuncinToffee

"Must say that I didn't expect a 'whatabout Trump"

This is not a "what about" but more about how entrenched political views skews and erodes objective critical thinking.

What is concerning is how entrenched political views seems to override objective critical thinking.

Who has done that in this instance? There’s been literally no evidence, one failed investigation and another that appears to be going nowhere. Objective critical thinkers are waiting for proof while upholding presumption of innocence until guilt is proven.

Thats exactly what you are doing though, without any knowledge of the case against her, other than media reports, you ve made a judgement that she has evaded tax, based on what exactly?
& where HMRC is not investigating her this, yet you appear to know more than the tax authorities.

Now, i happen to be on the Left/Labour side of the argument but have consistently said that if she has done anything wrong including tax evasion, she should resign, long before AR said this too.

If you read the threads on this subject, many left leaning MN ers have said similar too.

Yes not living with your spouse is unusual, but its not rare, there is even a name given to it, FB groups, books and articles written on the subject.

Atm, i don't know what AR has or has not done, just that there is no evidence of wrongdoing, should that change, my opinion of her will change too but i suspect that if GMP find she is innocent, you will still claim she is guilty, just "got away with it"

For example "I'm a Labour voter so AR is innocent and it's a witch hunt whereas as Trump is definitely guilty" or vice versa. What is rarer is for someone to express an opinion that both have committed an offence or neither have
@1dayatatime that’s less because of entrenched political beliefs and more because Trump’s case has sufficient evidence for it to see a court room and we know he’s a sneaky character (evidenced) from way back while Rayner has been cleared by the police…
It would be an odd sort of critical thinking not to take that into account. Plus at the time of the investigation I saw lots of Labour supporters on here saying they hoped she hadn’t done it but if she had, she should resign.

Where does choosing to apply "innocent until proven guilty" apply in this? At the moment the only information about AR is coming from the Press. It could be a smear. She's denied it,KS has denied it.

I'd prefer to wait until there's something a bit more concrete before coming to any conclusion.

I’m not a massive fan of Angela Rayner, I thought it was horrendous when she called Tory MPs “scum”, but this whole thing is such a blatant example of double standards. We’re talking about a few hundred quid in a really complex system, and I don’t care that much. It pales into insignificance compared to the taxes not paid by Nadhim Zahawi and others, and the Tories making a fuss know that damned well and should be ashamed of themselves.

She's apologised.
Unlike Bo Jo. Or Sunak for the jibe about trans at PMQs. I don't think the Tories ever got to the bottom of who gave the "basic instinct" story to the DM so there was no apology for that either.
Breathtaking double standards

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59081482.amp

Really? Because I’ve been an active member for years and almost none of the members/supporters I know do.

You poor thing @LoobyDop being scandalised by Ms Rayner calling Tories scum. Have you heard what they call her? I won't give an example in case you can't cope with it. But, believe it ir not, it's never complimentary. Hope that you find that equally horrendous.

Oh, piss off. I was defending the bloody woman.

Rayner got cleared in the first investigation and it is unclear what this second investigation is about

There wasn't a first investigation - the police initially decided not to investigate.

From what I understand, the police are looking at capital gains tax, council tax (re the single person discount) and electoral matters. Some journalists have also suggested that Angela Rayner's brother may have been paying rent - which might have affected income tax or benefits.

No further action:

No further action on the latest investigation @Clavinova

Cross post!

Hope James Daly is charged with wasting police time.

Await the "buts" that will be incoming!

Guess they will have to find their £6bn from tax avoidance in other places

Full statement from GMP:

"Following allegations about Angela Rayner MP, Greater Manchester police has completed a thorough, carefully considered and proportionate investigation. We have concluded that no further police action will be taken.

The investigation originated from complaints made by Mr James Daly MP directly to GMP. Subsequent further contact with GMP by members of the public, and claims made by individuals featured in media reporting, indicated a strong public interest in the need for allegations to be investigated.

Matters involving council tax and personal tax do not fall into the jurisdiction of policing. GMP has liaised with Stockport council and information about our investigation has been shared with them. Details of our investigation have also been shared with His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC)"