Angela Rayner - political hypocrite, yes or no?

[Agnes12]

Whatever the ins and outs, Angela says she is “proud” to have bought her council house 20 years ago under RTB. Angela has been a long-term Labour supporter and has come up through the Labour/Trade Union movement. I find it quite surprising that she has then bought a state owned asset, later sold at a profit.

I have never agreed with RTB but recognise for if you are given that opportunity you are probably going to take it. However for someone who purports to be a socialist isn’t this a tad hypocritical? Or doesn’t it matter and she should be allowed to take advantage of the scheme as she qualified?

But without evidence, HMRC cannot go around investigating people because of hearsay.

They can and they do, based on anonymous reporting.

RTB has been official policy for nearly 40 years! Through both conservative, labour, and coalition governments. Why on earth are you calling it "Labour's official policy"?

@AdamRyan

OK maybe we have different observations and experiences. Everyone I know who got married then lived with their husbands. Of course some then separated and some got divorced. But they all started off living with their husbands. None got married and then immediately lived separately.

Maybe your observation and experience is that it is usual on getting married not to live with your husband.

@Alexandra2001

"But without evidence, HMRC cannot go around investigating people because of hearsay."

"No evidence, not a shred of it but guilty nonetheless"

+++

I don't think you fully understand how HMRC work. Yes they can and they do investigate people either on heresay or what they believe to be suspicious or unusual activity.

The purpose of an investigation is to find evidence that tax evasion has taken place or for the individual to provide evidence it has not.

If sufficient evidence is found that evasion has occurred then action is taken or if sufficient evidence is provided that shows no evasion has occurred then the matter is dropped.

Look I am under no illusion that Lord Ashcroft funded this investigation of AR house sale for purely political reasons. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be investigated.

Just on right yo buy it's been Labour policy for decades,long before it was Tory policy. In fact it was a manifesto pledge in 1959 and accelerated under Labour administrations in the 60s and 70s. It was already law when Thatcher came in, what happened in 1980, 86 and 88 was the govt made successive interventions to inc the discounts existing renters received to encourage purchasing and thus over a third of a council stock was sold off. But substantively promoting home ownership for low income households is as much a Labour as Tory policy. It's very weird that Thatcherism was such a successful branding exercise for the Tories people assume everything her administrations did was novel. But whilst she was novel policy on the 80s was surprisingly stale or heavily influenced by the European social model not the USA. That didn't start happening till the mid90s.

My observation is there is no such thing as a "normal" marriage and it's impossible to judge other people's arrangements.

And that phrases about "normal women/women usually" usually betray some general sexism at play

Oh but i do...
HMRC would need more than hearsay to launch a full investigation, otherwise every "wronged" party in the land would be making fictitious & anonymous allegations and they'd grind to a halt.
HMRC investigations can turn your life upside down...

They'd have have known about the sale as SDLT was paid upon the sale, they d also (potentially) check with LR & CT records... all std stuff, then there are the declarations that it was her sole home, made to her solicitor.

Ashcroft, despite his millions found no evidence of anything at all..

What suspicious activity??? this was a decade ago and not living together after marriage is something 1 in 10 newly married couples decide to do (Google) there is even a term for it - LAT: Living Apart Together.

Quite how anyone can prove they lived at an address other than through bills and taxes i do not know and AR has all that.......unless there is contrary evidence, what someone tells you has to be accepted.

I meant housing policy going into the next election. So the future policy will be the same as the current one apart from some tweaking round the edges with RTB discounts.

As far as current labour talk on this goes, the aim is to massively rebuild social housing provision, a lot more than "tweaking"

Have to wait until they publish their manifesto.

There is additional evidence that HMRC will be able to request that you haven't mentioned that will be important in this particular case.

Some pretty astute gaming of the system at best is the way it looks to me. I wonder if some posters would be doing the same mental gymnastics to justify this if she sat on the opposite benches in the chamber?

The opposition bench is replete with the most grotesque corruption of any Tory government in my lifetime.

Yes of course if AR had fiddled the system that's not right and should be investigated, but forgive me if I'm too goggled-eyed at the £billions beyond our wildest dreams, to be sidetracked by a couple potentially avoiding a CGT of a few grand on a council house purchase.

This question is about AR. To me, the principle and potential hypocrisy is more important than the amounts involved. If there are specific examples of wrongdoing from Conservative politicians or indeed any other public figure, please start a thread.

@Everanewbie

You were first the mention the opposition with regards to AR, not me.

I'll happily start a thread about Tory corruption but Mumsnet is already filled with them.

Can't be bothered to start a new thread, but this is worth a read (there are more names to add to the list now!).

https://x.com/gemmagould/status/1579387130203500547?s=20

Wow. Thank you x

Well, she has been cleared of any wrongdoing.

So i hope you re content with that.

....though i doubt it.

@Agnes12 Turns out- no she isn't.

No. In a government of lying, gaslighting chancers and grabbers, she is a shining beacon of honesty. And, although her honesty has been proven in this matter, I'd say the same if it hadn't. Nobody comes close to them by comparison.

New this evening -

Friday March 15 2024, 8.20pm, The Times
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/angela-rayner-house-tax-row-neighbours-wglbv9h2g

The local Tory MP, James Daly, referred Rayner to Greater Manchester police over potential electoral irregularities — under electoral rules, voters have to register at their permanent address — but after a few days the force ruled out criminality. On Wednesday, however, Daly renewed his demand for a thorough investigation, writing a letter directly to the detective superintendent responsible and questioning the force’s decision.

Says it all really.

Oh god it's Keir's Beer all over again. Such a waste of police time. I wish they could prosecute the Tories for it, in the way that they deal with abusive men who misuse the police to further their abuse by reporting "crimes"

While I'm no fan of hers or any other politician, I see why she did it at the time as did many others (RTB was always going to be abused and was a stupid idea), but she should really just admit it and pay the bill.

She maintains there’s nothing to admit and no bill to pay. And, judging by the length of time the second investigation has been going on and the failure of the first one to find anything, my inclination is to believe her.

Lol so you'd pay a tax bill that you hadn't incurred?? nor has even been issued by HMRC.....

As far i'm aware, the Police investigation is into allegations of electoral fraud.
Police don't routinely going around investigating minior tax issues, where HMRC hasn't even issued a bill.

Or do you think all the carers who earned 1p more than the threshold cut off should face a police investigation?