Confused about Trans and NonBinary

[CactusMactus]

I am going to get terminologies wrong here... soz in advance.
Friends gown up daughter-at-birth has recently had top surgery to become trans. She has used pronouns 'they/them' for a while and continues to consider themselves non-binary.
I don't understand how that works. Surely if you are trans you have changed from she/her to he/him not she/her to they/them.
Does one transition to non-binary?
Genuin question...

the only people claiming it are the MAPS themselves, no-one else within the queer community wants them there.

I think it was an ironic statement. We (actual born women) have been trying for years to understand. Only to be told 'no debate'.

Now we have men winning female sports....accessing female prisons and quite frankly getting their cock and balls out in front of women and girls to get their wank fodder. From work places, gyms, and M&S of all places.

You need to claim to be hugely oppressed, and also so much happier and "euphoric" whilst also highly at risk of suicide and avoiding the genocide.
No, I don't understand either.

@LentilFaculties I guess it does. LOL. You could consider yourself non binary I guess as the first identity you feel, as in small kids probably don't know or care what sex they are...So we are all non-binary, transitioned into Cis? So we are all trans as we no longer identify as non binary like we did aged 2.

Now I'm flipping confused as much as anything!?

Before Elon Musk took over twitter, there were loads of MAP accounts, and NOMAP ones too (non offending minor attracted person).

I don't believe most trans people support paedophilia or would welcome MAPs under the "umbrella". However, MAPs have created a pride flag and the old twitter accounts often associated themselves with the trans movement.

A worrying aspect to trans ideology is that any criticism at all is faced off with cries of "transphobia" and worse. So if you consider yourself a trans ally you might not have allowed yourself to think critically about some of the areas where trans ideology might be enabling MAP behaviour, even though most trans people would find it abhorrent. Some examples would be: the use of euphemisms rather than anatomically correct terms for genitals; telling children to disbelieve their own eyes and that some males are women, "it's not your business what's in somebody's pants" etc; prioritising people's feelings about their own identity over their responsibilities towards the rest of society; encouraging "acceptance without exception"; normalising the presence of males in women's spaces; encouraging professionals to keep secrets from children's parents; encouraging children to trust adults on the internet and keep secrets from their parents.

Further to this some influential trans activists have made quite open pro paedophilic remarks. That includes Peter Tatchel arguing that sometimes children aren't harmed by sex with adults. I'm sure other people can remember more (the guy who said something about little girls being sexual? And the charity trustee who wrote a pro paedo paper?)

I've attached something that is written by a pro trans person, just so it's not automatically discounted by the people who need to think about this most.

https://phaylen.medium.com/do-you-know-what-a-map-is-i-just-found-out-and-now-im-warning-friends-dfd48f0ffded

Ive always felt that Non binary was an 'almost but not quite there' feminism for the female advocates of this specific identity

They seem to acknowledge that they are disadvantaged as women, both in professional and career aspects, in a negative discrimination, and also in regards being sexualised in an increasingly porn-fuelled world that seems to suggest that 'womanhood' involves being a readily available collection of holes for male gratification. (a driving force I would suspect has alot to do with so many teenage girls identifying out of being female) They recognise that you dont 'feel' like a woman or a man, but dont seem to understand that the majority of us dont. They wont fight against porn or prostitution, because thats not the woke thing to do.

they would wish to live in a world where being female - or indeed male - didnt set such rigid frameworks - where you are assessed as a 'person' - so rather like a blind audition.

But rather than fight, like previous generations of women did - for better rights and a crackdown on sexual harrassment/abuse / porn - they seem to have fallen for the trap of trying to slip into a box of a different colour. Its almost as if the trans movement saw them as a potential risk for the gender binary, and hoovered them up into a new box, an androgenous box. And as this whole movement is a male rights movemnent, its no wonder that even that androgenous box's default body is male. hence the flat chest requirement.

Such a shame because, as a feminist, Im really saddened to see that women who recognise the unfairness of being female have been hoodwinked again.

Surely it's up to her what she calls it? It's well known as top surgery.

And demanding to use women's loos and changing rooms. Why, if a male claims to feel "non binary", are the women's facilities more suitable than the men's I wonder

It's up to her what she calls it, and it's up to others if they want to point out what it is, and why using twee obfuscation isn't a good thing.

Of course it is - it’s part of the sanitation of reality that the TRAs use in order to justify body mutilation.The rest of us know what a double mastectomy is.

It's a body modification cult.

Just putting this here for those interested in links suggested upthread.

https://juliebindel.substack.com/p/gender-ideology-and-child-abuse-apologism

Amazing isn't it though, just how few biologically male-born trans/non-binary people decide to have their dick taken off. I wonder why that is.

Elective double mastectomy.

I think that's a good way of putting it, I admit I don't really understand non binary properly so you put it well, thanks, bit clearer now

Such a weird reaction.
Grieving? Why?! A GROWN UP, ADULT wants to modify their body, why on earth would you grieve?!
It's like grieving someone getting a breast reduction.
Absolutely nothing to do with you 😕

Why is a masculine appearance considered the neutral option?

Trans is an umbrella term for anyone who does not identify with the sex they were assigned at birth.

Top surgery is not self-harm, the same way knee surgery is not self-harm. It is something that will improve their quality of life. You should accept them for the person they are.

The LGBTQ community just wants acceptance and is not "shoving things down people's throats". Many communities are underrepresented in media. There are a million straight characters for every one gay character. This underrepresentation causes queer people to feel isolated and like they are wrong for loving who they love or being who they are. Queer people simply want to exist in a world where they are not hate crimed for being themself. If you are a parent I suggest you give your kids books about different people and cultures. This exposes them to different ideas earlier on. It is also scientifically proven to improve social skills and imagination. It also helps kids to understand that there are people that are not like their immediate family.

I thought I would address multiple comments in my post.

Have a wonderful day and be open-minded, loving, and accepting of everyone ❤️

MAPS are not part of the LGBTQ community and never will be. They are horrible people who deserve to go to jail for the rest of their lives. MAPS saying they are part of the LGBTQ community is criminalizing an already marginalized community. It is honestly so horrible.

A lot of people call it top surgery and that is ok.

I really can not comprehend them?, as in both one person being in-between both sexes or identifying.
For instance what clothes do them buy,,, either female or males? Cause of body shapes not genitals this is designed for each.
Niche market time?

Top surgery is not self-harm, the same way knee surgery is not self-harm. It is something that will improve their quality of life. You should accept them for the person they are.
@strudelcutie4427 This seems completely contradictory. I accept people the way they are WITHOUT surgery. This does not mean I have to accept every thing someone does in order to accept them as a person. That way madness lies.

"Top" surgery is not knee surgery. It is not aimed at alleviating a physical symptom but a mental one. It is harmful to the body and many people regret it. I accept that adults may decide to harm themselves and that is their right. I do not accept that this type of surgery should be celebrated and encouraged- this affects children too.

Twenty years ago, nobody had top surgery - do you ever wonder why? Now there are thousands of clinics in the US (but elsewhere too) charging thousands of dollars for it. Why? Follow the 💰. It's not the only reason but it baffles me that so many people are cheering it on without the least interest in why there has been this massive change.

I think it’s REALLY important to make the distinction. So basically creepy men on Twitter decided to try and themselves into the movement l? And presumably they have failed because there’s no official support for this, is there? Hence me asking for a reputable source.

its so dangerous to try and imply like I believe the last PP did that trans and non binary folks / Stonewall support fucking pedophiles.

a 15 year old has just died after being beaten up at school for being non binary.

there are so so many valid arguments to have but I will never tolerate hate smearing.

@Mintyfreshtulips I think the best way to understand it is that ANY group can and will be infiltrated by MAP. That can be scouts, the Church, LGBT groups etc. That is precisely why we have safeguarding procedures. It is not that Stonewall and others have been openly supporting paedophiles, the problem is as pointed out above, many of these ideas that are being pushed by Stonewall do go against safeguarding. Allowing males into female spaces is a paedophile dream!

I fear that there will be a huge backlash against this when people really understand what is happening. This makes it WORSE for any gay people. Basically we were at a really good place ten years ago for gay rights and acceptance and activists are doing their best to reverse this.

The definition of transgender from Google is someone whose gender identity does not correspond with their sex at birth.

If you are born female and now identify as non-binary, that is a change of gender identity.