Confused about Trans and NonBinary

[CactusMactus]

I am going to get terminologies wrong here... soz in advance.
Friends gown up daughter-at-birth has recently had top surgery to become trans. She has used pronouns 'they/them' for a while and continues to consider themselves non-binary.
I don't understand how that works. Surely if you are trans you have changed from she/her to he/him not she/her to they/them.
Does one transition to non-binary?
Genuin question...

I honestly haven’t got a fucking clue.

i never pretended i did.

why do i need to have the answer?

why do i need to have the answer?
Because you have to know absolutely everything, don't you know that by now?!
Preferably with a pointy stick, white board and bullet points.
doesn't work the other way round though, then it's I'm not your support human, go Google etc 🙄😁

No pointy stick needed, just a suggestion would be nice. It should be very simple to come up with something if you believe that TWAW despite their male predilections.

Please point me towards where I have said that.

So you don’t believe that TWAW?

Nope.

I agree - and no amount of ambiguously named surgery will change that.

Don't be so open-minded that you are susceptible to being brainwashed and your brains fall out.

The word "barn door" and "horse" spring to mind.

Words, not word. Meaning remains the same, though.

I live in France where mixed loos were everywhere until a few years back. I don't know why they dont just do that everywhere. Even now you come across them; A room with a line of urinals on one side and normal cubicles on the other! Wash basins are shared! An un-transitioned guy in a frock presumably wouldn't want to use the urinals so he/she could just use the cubicles.

@Nantescalling Whether you like it or not, in the UK statistics show that unisex spaces are more dangerous for women and children - in fact more sexual assaults take place in unisex rather than single sex spaces. So whether you personally feel comfortable or not is not the issue.

I don't know why they dont just do that everywhere

Yeah, no thanks.

Non merci - I avoid them like the plague. Plenty of unisex loos are available in France so I use them instead.

Not living in the UK, I wasn't aware of that. I can't find any such statistics for France but I did come across the fact that in the US, rules vary from State to State. I guess WAYS will be adding that to all its features !

are of that.

I agree with you that you should accept people without surgeries. This being said you should also accept people with surgeries.
Top surgery is a surgery that some trans people choose to get to make them feel better about themself. Trans dysphoria is a real thing. It is not more harmful to the body than a normal surgery. Trans surgeries are not dangerous because they are trans-related but because they are surgeries. Trans surgeries, like all surgeries, come with risks. If you don't think people should get trans surgeries then it would be contradictory to say anyone should get surgery.
The regret rate for trans surgery is less than one percent. (That one percent is normally caused by external factors and rejection) Compare this to the 14% regret rate for other surgeries. People hold trans surgeries to a high standard because finding a way to discourage them allows them to give a reason for their bigotry.
This in no way affects children. Trans surgeries and health care are extremely hard to access even as an adult.
I don't know where you got your numbers about trans surgeries starting 20 years ago. The first trans surgeries officially performed in the United States were in the 1920s and 1930s.
I am "cheering it on" because people should have access to the health care they desire. (With the full understanding of the procedures they are taking.
I suggest you do some more research as well as some self-reflection.

Your comment is incredibly funny "Gender Ideology cult" lol. I appreciate your humor. Assigned at birth is inclusive language that a lot of people use. I don't understand your problem with it.
Top surgery is the common terminology so that is what I will be saying. It is in no way self-harm. Self-harm is defined as "Self-harm, or self-mutilation, is the act of deliberately inflicting pain and damage to one's own body." Trans surgery is just another surgery. It is a surgery that improves the quality of life for many trans individuals. The trans suicide rate is not more common after surgery. I have no idea where you have gotten these results. Please cite a reliable source if you can find one. Trans suicide is most common in trans youth due to a lack of a support system when young.
I agree that people should try to love their bodies the best they can. But many cis people get breast reductions, go on hormones, as well as get boob jobs. But, no one seems to have a problem with these. This is because of transphobia.
The trans community is wildly underrepresented. The LGBTQ community as a whole is underrepresented. A show might have one LGBTQ character among a cast of 50 cishet characters. Think of a Disney movie, have you ever seen a queer Disney princess? No.
I have never seen a children's book that has told children they are "born wrong". I completely agree with you about body positivity and you are completely right. There should be more body positivity in our society. This being said a book that teaches children it's ok if they are trans is very good. It is important to expose children to different people and cultures. It is scientifically proven to increase social skills and imagination. By exposing children to different ideas earlier on they become more accepting of different cultures and people. It is important to teach children that not all families are like their own family. This is why books about things like lunar new year are very important.
I am not so open-minded that I am brainwashed and my brains have not fallen out. I am simply not living in the 15th century and I encourage you to do the same. I am simply relying on facts and the experiences of real trans individuals and my own experiences as a human. I understand that not all people are surrounded by a positive community and there is a lot of transphobia in the world right now. I encourage you to do some self-reflection and research.

They call it that because it is a less complicated term and something that cis people can easily figure out. It is not self-harm or mutilation. It is a surgery that improves the quality of life for many people. Many people are very happy with their surgery. The regret rate is less than one percent. Compare this to the regret rate for the average surgery which is 14 percent.
Your idea that trans surgery is self-harm comes from a place of transphobia. Transohobes try to find the smallest reasons to deny trans people health care or to dislike trans people.
If I were you I would reflect on why you are transphobic. Whether you realize it or not you are transphobic. But people grow and change and I encourage you to do some self-reflection.
Many homophobic and transphobic people like to deny that they are transphobic and/or homophobic. I think this comes from a place of not wanting to feel bad about being hateful. Which is a strange comparison to racist people who do not deny being racist.

Thanks for these copy and paste screeds! But many of us don't believe in gender identity ideology.

"Top surgery" is a twee euphemism for a double mastectomy.

You're American, aren't you?

"I encourage you to do some self-reflection and research."

Could say the same to you honestly rather than living in a bubble.

@strudelcutie4427 Has it not occurred to you that we have done our research? There is very poor evidence that surgical intervention does anything to improve mental wellbeing and it is terrible for physical health.

Yes, I know there were trans surgeries carried out many years ago but they were largely on males, not the mastectomies we are seeing on a large scale on girls nowadays.

Of course it affects children. They don't live in a bubble. They are aware of the issue and influenced by it , especially as it is now discussed in schools and in the media. And of course children have been operated on too. Have you not seen the huge increase in girls identifying as trans or non-binary? How can you say it doesn't affect children? 🤔

And yep, definitely American I would say or gullible. What you have written does not apply to the UK.

@strudelcutie4427 If you're reply is to me:
'Inclusive' almost always means EXCLUDING women. 'Assigned at birth' is both misogynistic and wrong. It is not right to LIE to people. NO ONE has their sex 'assigned' at birth. No one! It isn't even a thing outside the cult.

Evidence of trans suicide rates: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

"ConclusionThis study found substantially higher rates of overall mortality, death from cardiovascular disease and suicide, suicide attempts, and psychiatric hospitalisations in sex-reassigned transsexual individuals compared to a healthy control population. This highlights that post surgical transsexuals are a risk group that need long-term psychiatric and somatic follow-up."

You really should do your homework before showing that you're brainwashed by a cult.

If you believe males can become women, then you ARE living in the 15th century and not in the modern era of SCIENCE AND BIOLOGY.

There is no such thing as 'cishet', you are repeating cult talking points and buzzwords.

Children should be taught it's ok to be their own sex, and not to be trans. By exposing children to anti-scientific lies, you are brainwashing them and destroying them.

I suggest you research (as it's obvious you haven't done the slightest bit of research), do some self-reflection as to why you are so easily caught up in a dangerous cult, and educate yourself. No one can change sex. 'Trans' is not a thing, and children should not be filled with ideological rubbish that you can pretend to be what you aren't. It's child abuse.

@strudelcutie4427

But many cis people get breast reductions, go on hormones, as well as get boob jobs.

Many cis people ‘go on hormones’? What do you mean? Are you talking about things like the contraceptive pill and HRT for menopause?