Confused about Trans and NonBinary

[CactusMactus]

I am going to get terminologies wrong here... soz in advance.
Friends gown up daughter-at-birth has recently had top surgery to become trans. She has used pronouns 'they/them' for a while and continues to consider themselves non-binary.
I don't understand how that works. Surely if you are trans you have changed from she/her to he/him not she/her to they/them.
Does one transition to non-binary?
Genuin question...

What further explanation of the facts do you require at this stage?

top surgery is the correct medical term. You don’t have to agree with it or like it.

Er no, double mastectomy is the correct medical term.

I don't know how TRAs close their eyes to the misogyny of the entire movement.

Because that's a huge attraction of it.

How can it be self harm? Because mutilating your body surgically is only part of the story. Putting aside the risk of surgery itself, and complications arising from surgery such as infection , for many women surgery is not enough and taking hormones that cause permanent and damaging changes to your body is the other part of the story.

Women who take testosterone are more at risk of crippling early onset osteoporosis , they often suffer from vaginal atrophy, they are likely to become infertile , they are likely to develop skin conditions like acne which can be very distressing. Add to this the distress that women who at a later date decide to de transition feel when they discover that other very visible changes such as a deeper voice and hair growth patterns also remain even after they stop taking hormones.

I would call these issues self harm, what would you call them?

This was in response to @NoMoreFalafelsForYou

I think that comment is making a point about the authoritarian streak in gender identity ideology.

Interested to know if those who think ‘top surgery’ is a medical term also think ‘bottom surgery’ is one- presumably they do.

When someone is booked in for ‘bottom surgery’ I wonder how the hospital know whether it’s a proctologist, urologist or cosmetic surgeon they need to provide?

These terms are so obviously euphemisms!

Yes, I do agree that men will abuse the system, we can already see they do.

Which is why Stonewall's 'acceptance without exception' is such a problem. Do you agree with that too?

What about Stonewall's 'no debate'?

Any man whether or not he's a sexual predator, paedophile, voyeur, fetish, etc. can and should have access to female only spaces (including access to children) when they are in a vulnerable position such hospital/prison or in a state of undress such as changing areas and showers.

This is Stonewall's stance and they say we are not to debate it.

Do you agree with that?

Uh?

Is bottom surgery the "medical term" for surgery on one's bottom? 🤔

Or a euphemism for penis amputation?

Exactly!

It is often used to refer to penis amputation surgery, or conversely, a type of surgery in which some arm or leg flesh is affixed to a woman’s vulva to create a not particularly convincing facsimile of a penis.

But I feel like ‘bottom surgery’ is the sort of phrase my mum would have used if she was referring to someone having a procedure on their rectum or anus.

My cat had to have his penis amputated. The vet did not call it ‘bottom surgery’ but ‘perineal urethrostomy’.

Someone else used that example above. Said it was the same as teaching a child to call their vagina a cookie which left them open to abuse.

No, I don’t agree with it at all.

And I’m sure lots of trans folks don’t either tbh.

I know the context in which it was mentioned on the thread.

My “Uh?” was a response to the question from that particular poster, which was a total non sequitur.

You don’t agree with Stonewall or you don’t agree with males accessing female spaces?

I would say Who Cares?

But it's the children who are not NT who have mental health issue and are grasping on to these ideas to make themselves feel normal when they are normal already.

We just need to teach all our children that normal is a range of things and you don't need to be heterosexual, sex conforming and pretty to be a woman. It is just a fact.

I don’t agree with a “no debate” or not ever questioning whether policies are open to exploitation or safeguarding risks. There should always be a fair and firm risk assessment that protects both women and trans folks. Unfortunately I don’t think in many circumstances there’s ever going to be something that everything agrees with. But I think it’s silly for them to just stick their fingers in their ears.

Weeeeell, you are quite right since Google says 'Non-binary people may identify as an intermediate or separate third gender, identify with more than one gender, no gender, or have a fluctuating gender identity. Gender identity is separate from sexual or romantic orientation: non-binary people have various sexual orientations.'

So, a as a frog
b, as a male or female or zero gender
c, all the above on weekends but not on weekdays!

You can sleep with who/whatever you fancy. That''s the good bit !

Could you pin that back to my question?

Sorry could you repeat the question?

You don’t agree with Stonewall or you don’t agree with males accessing female spaces?

I don’t agree with Stonewalls approach for some things, no

What things do you agree with and what do disagree with re Stonewall?

And you agree that males should be able to access female only spaces?