Confused about Trans and NonBinary

[CactusMactus]

I am going to get terminologies wrong here... soz in advance.
Friends gown up daughter-at-birth has recently had top surgery to become trans. She has used pronouns 'they/them' for a while and continues to consider themselves non-binary.
I don't understand how that works. Surely if you are trans you have changed from she/her to he/him not she/her to they/them.
Does one transition to non-binary?
Genuin question...

She's had a double mastectomy not 'top surgery'. Sorry to be arsey about it but these things matter.

You don't really need to understand, you just need to do as you're told.

Does one transition to non-binary

Yes

Top surgery is the correct term

The ideology that led this young woman to have drastic surgery isn't logical or consistent, so any attempt to try and make sense of this will fail.

Well it's self indulgent bollocks, and top surgery is a sanitised way of saying she's mutilated her body because reasons. I feel deeply sorry for people like your friends daughter.

Supposedly non-binary people feel they are neither male or female - yet somehow it's only the female non-binary people who are cutting off body parts. A previous poster says it's illogical. It's also very sexist, unfortunately.

Apologies for using 'top surgery' correctly or not. I was just repeating my friend's words / terms.
I probably should have considered before parroting!

I find it all quite sad - The surgery is such dramatic self harm I don't see how it can't be a mental health issue.

It is a mental health issue. And it isn't "cured" by cutting off health body parts.

The entire ideology is sexist and regressive.

Sex is binary but it's very nature. No amount of surgery will change anybody's sex. You are born male or female and will die with the same sex you were born as, even if you amputate body parts.

It is a mental health issue with has been politicised into a cult like belief.

Yes, funny that. I have never read of a NB born male chopping their bits off and showing their scars of all over social media but X etc full of young teenage girls showing of their mastectomy scars, and being applauded for it. Its so sad.

It's the new anorexia.

Yep.

I think you're overthinking this. Your friend's child isn't 'transitioning' to trans or non-binary. You can be trans without having any surgery at all and non-binary just means you don't identify with any one gender (nothing to do with surgery).

I am guessing from what you've said, and thinking about a friend I know personally, is that this person identifies as non-binary, so not using she/her or he/him, but has had surgery to change their body to be a way that feels more like who they are. Just because you have your breasts removed doesn't mean you have to be a man - as there are lots of women who have had the same out of necessity due to cancer. It's no different to women getting massive fake boobs with implants - because they feel that fits how they want to look and who they want to be. Neither would be my personal choice, but it's not as black and white as I think you are thinking.

Your friend's child has changed their body to feel more like them. And has said how they identify. I don't think you really need to overthink it.

It’s all bollocks. Nod and smile whilst internally grieving and raging.

Lack of thinking, not overthinking, is the problem here. Giving teens drastic surgery that often ends in chronic pain, never able to breastfeed, reduced sexual satisfaction etc is not the answer to them feeling uncomfortable in their bodies.

I agree it’s a type of self-harm. Incredible that we’re trying to fix bad feelings and poor mental health with body modification.
Removing her breasts will have given her a completely flat chest I’m assuming? Non binary probably fits better. Men don’t have completely flat chests, not unless they’re very thin, most of them over a certain age have moobs.
it’s children, boys and girls, who have completely flat chests. I think she’s basically attempted to de-sex herself.
The surgeons need locking up.

It's no different to women getting massive fake boobs with implants - because they feel that fits how they want to look and who they want to be.
I disagree. I wouldn't want to do either but removing healthy body parts is more extreme. If it's done to conform to an idea of not being the sex one is born as, it's deluded. I'm not saying at all that an adult should not be free to do what they want with their body but I see it as coercion.

but has had surgery to change their body to be a way that feels more like who they are.

So if I felt I would feel more like me if I cut my arm off, that would be ok too - no one would be wondering about my mental health?

That is an insane statement to make.

I think the poster was joking!

Haha yes, this!

Oh right! Sorry I can never tell these days 😵‍💫

They are different procedures. Top surgery doesn't remove all the breast tissue, it just gives a masculine appearance.

This is the wrong site to ask, op, so I’m unsure whether you’re simply trying to stir things up. On the off chance that you are genuine, mumsnet is a hotbed of transphobia and you won’t get objective or accurate info here. It’s a waste of time trying to have a reasoned discussion here.

Lack of thinking, not overthinking, is the problem here. Giving teens drastic surgery that often ends in chronic pain, never able to breastfeed, reduced sexual satisfaction etc is not the answer to them feeling uncomfortable in their bodies

this.