Confused about Trans and NonBinary

[CactusMactus]

I am going to get terminologies wrong here... soz in advance.
Friends gown up daughter-at-birth has recently had top surgery to become trans. She has used pronouns 'they/them' for a while and continues to consider themselves non-binary.
I don't understand how that works. Surely if you are trans you have changed from she/her to he/him not she/her to they/them.
Does one transition to non-binary?
Genuin question...

Well as you can’t really be either in any meaningful sense, you probably can’t be both.

(Being a vegetarian is a real thing, but you can’t change sex. Being a pescatarian is a real thing too, unlike being non-binary, which is physically impossible, as you are always either male or female, even in those rare anomalous cases known to medicine.)

All you need to know is that your friend's daughter has a mental illness, and has tragically mutilated herself as a result.
I remember seeing a documentary about people who wanted their legs amputated, and felt desperately uncomfortable with their (perfectly normal) legs. They begged and pleaded with surgeons to amputate their legs, and some of them found surgeons who would do it. But at no point did anyone pretend this was anything other than a mental illness.
Having healthy breasts removed is the same really.

One difference in this debate between "top surgery" and other cosmetic surgeries is that if I say that I think cosmetic surgery is a bad idea, a rip off, and mainly benefits the beauty and surgery industries, no one would argue that my motivation for saying this comes from hating the patients.

you clearly have not seen any images of the - mostly children - that have undergone this.

Your friend's child has changed their body to feel more like them.

What exactly does this mean though? A person IS their body.

Yes, I too couldn’t find anything about top surgery being much less radical than a full mastectomy. There was a lot of might be able to produce some breast milk.

Not at all reassuring. And I know I’ve seen videos of detransitioners in distress because while they’ve been fortunate enough to have a baby despite previous treatments, they have been completely unable to breastfeed because of the top surgery that had.

Until you have a baby, I don’t think you fully appreciate the visceral need to do prioritise them. Knowing you can’t breast feed because of choices you made as a teen is tragic.

If I was a law student now I'd be thinking about all the money I'd be making in the future, when all these mutated young people sue their surgeons.

Double mastectomy is the correct term.

When you called reasonable concerns 'transphobia', it's clear that you are long past being able to have a reasoned discussion.

People just love to judge what other people do with their bodies. My friend's daughter had a breast reduction because her back was wrecked. Even she got comments about mutilating herself, and how she should love the body God gave her, and how there are women who would kill to have what she has, and how she should think of the poor women who lost theirs to cancer and here she is willing wanting to cut hers up. People need to mind their own business.

Stop lying there is absolutely no transphobia on this thread. You clearly don't know what actual transphobia is.

"I didn't think a person could be non-binary AND trans. Like non binary is no gender / sex. Trans is one sex/gender "CHANGED" into the other."

It's part of the mental gymnastics - for some bizarre reason non-binary falls under the "trans umbrella".
From my understanding, there has to be a "trans umbrella", because not all trans people can afford the care and medical procedures that come along with being trans.
Pretty sure this is where the idea originally stemmed from that a trans person is trans no matter where they are in their transition, thus leading to "I am a woman/man simply because I say I am" - So as not to discriminate against "poor" trans people.

EDIT; I mean poor as is financially, not poor as in "poor diet" or "Poor unfortunate souls" lol

EDIT 2; Posted too quickly; I'm also not sure why Binary trans would want to be lumped in with non-binary trans who don't have any desire for medical intervention at all and just dress in a non conforming way to begin with.
Their lived experiences will be vastly different.
A change of clothes and slapping on some lippy or shaving your hair off/growing it long is obviously not the same thing as life altering permanent body modifications that can go horrifically wrong and have horrendous side effects for the rest of their lives.
So yeah, long story short - it doesn't make sense, but I think was done for sake of inclusivity. As everything is these days.

A breast reduction is very different from a mastectomy

That's a completely different issue to a woman having a double mastectomy because she believes she is a man or doesn't want to identify as either sex.

It's still no one's business what anyone does with their own body.

The reason is still none of your business.

Do you think that about anorexics? That its nobody's business? What about people cutting themselves or other forms of self harm? Nobody's business?

im just wondering why anyone is asking what the parent of a grown up woman thinks, and why they're referring to her as a 'child' when the OP clearly states this is an adult that has had the surgery.

I doubt they, as an adult, even gave any thought to what their mother thought because it's none of their business what their adult offspring chooses to do with their body.

It is the business of society to work out why so many young women are opting to mutilate their bodies because they think that being female is so bad.

Why do you think that as a society we should turn a blind eye to this?

Particularly when the young girls who are identify as transgender tend to be vulnerable girls like lesbians or autistic girls? Do you think we should just put them all on pathways that lead to bodily harm and potentially infertility because it's nobodies business to question it?

A breast reduction is completely different, because it is a physical way of dealing with a physical problem (usually chronic back pain). It's more equivalent to having bunion surgery, say, than it is to trans-related surgery. Further, because it's a physical way of dealing with a physical problem, the assessment of the risk-benefit ratio is a lot simpler.

Yes. It is none of your business what a random person who you don't know does to their body. And if you do know them then I would like to think you would feel compassion for them and not just talk about them in such a hateful way like people do about trans people.

"Cut yourself all you want, you'll never be clean."
"Starve yourself all you want, you'll never be happy."

I don’t understand all the terminology either OP.
I guess anyone can call themselves what they like but you can’t change chromosomes which will always be XX or XY.
Although I bet someone somewhere is working on that to jump on a bandwagon and make a shed load of money.

Sure. All these hateful comments are just people concerned about society. Right.

It's not hateful to be concerned when young women, often vulnerable young women harm their own bodies in this way.

It's hateful if as a society we ignore then reasons. Especially when we know that this impacts vulnerable young women like autistic young women more.

Which hateful comment?

I am the mother of a non gender conforming autistic teen girl. I've every right to be concerned about the way that girls like my daughter are signing up to double mastectomies at 18.