Divorcing Friends

[Stickinthemuddle]

Pretty sure everyone is BU but would appreciate some perspective!

I’ve been friends with a couple since school- nearly 30 years. Equally friends with both.

The husband 2 years ago began an affair and they’re now divorcing. He got caught out and the wife took it really really badly, was really spinning out for a whole year.

The husband is still with the woman and they’re living together. The wife has started dating pretty regularly.

Me and 2 other long standing friends have been socialising with the wife openly throughout and have been discreetly maintaining contact with our friend the husband too. It’s now got to the stage where we’d like to meet his girlf (and he’s basically said it’s both of them or nothing too). Given how the wife has been I think she will just totally go off the rails if she finds out we’re meeting them and possibly becoming friends with his new partner- despite her talking about us maybe meeting this guy she’s been seeing.

I don’t know what to do. We seem to either have to continue keeping secrets from our friend the wife or lose one of them as friends we can regularly see as we always have.

Cross with both of them were in this position and can also see both points of view. She’s honestly fine now, she’s not unwell or depressed any more but I imagine will be pissed off which feels like she’s telling us who we can and can’t see I suppose.

What to do?! We just want to do pub quizzes etc!

Don’t be naive OP. He’s fine with you seeing her because he’s the one that’s had the affair and gets to continue his life as though nothing’s changed - i mean, by the sounds of it, his friends will even allow him to swap out his wife for the other woman and carry on doing pub quizzes as though nothing’s changed. Absolutely despicable and disloyal behaviour on you and your DH’s part.

How often does he see his child(ren)? As other posters have said, of course he isn't putting up restrictions as he is living his best life whilst his ex wife's life has been blown apart!

He CAN help not cheating on his wife for a BLOODY WHOLE YEAR! Give your head a wobble!

He didn't develop feelings and did nothing, separated from his wife and then start a relationship with the other women did he?

You sound like shit friend, she is better off without you.

You just sound very wishy washy type of friend depending on how the wind blows circumstances of infidelity which happened to your friend,

makes you feel and reflects on you in regards of being a friend out,

She's not putting 'restrictions' up. She's enforcing very healthy and smart BOUNDARIES. The fact you think she's in any way BU is absolutely extraordinary.

@Stickinthemuddle im trying to be on both sides I suppose. If I sound down on her it’s because he hasn’t said we can’t see her, it’s only her putting restrictions up.
And he is giving you an ultimatum too as he has made it clear that you either socialise with him and the other woman together or he won’t socialise with you at all, so you’re choosing not to see that as an ultimatum as well when it is. I, and I’m sure other posters, would have more respect for you if you just admitted that you don’t like the wife, even though she’s supposed to be your friend, and prefer the husband over her. That’s the only plausible explanation for your behaviour.

But was the husband your friend as well? I remain friends with a couple of people who have cheated on their partners, but I didn’t need to ‘pick’ because I wasn’t also friends with the partners. (This is why I’m happy that I have individual friendships rather than a big group of long-standing couple-friends, which always has the potential to get messy. This might also be why I’m irritated with the cheating dude in this scenario because for his ‘love me, love my dog’ approach in trying to shoehorn this relative stranger into an established friendship group)

You dont seem to realise that HE is the one who has created this dilemma. HE is the one who has put you in this position. HE is the one forcing this woman on you with his threat of "its both of us of none of us". HE is putting himself before you or anyone else as cheaters do.

His ex - your friend, apparently - is being perfectly normal, feeling the way she does. It is perfectly normal to not want to spend time with someone who has hurt you. It is perfectly normal to expect support and loyalty from the people who know how much you have been hurt.

HE has put you in this position, and YOU are putting her in this position. I can't believe any friend would be so selfish as to want the victim in all this to put her hurt aside and give you her blessing to embrace the two thindercunts who betrayed her.

This is the bed he made. He should lie in it. When you do something so selfish, you should expect there to be fallout. That goes for you too.

You can't be that naive to not understand why she's asked you not to curb contact and not him. She's the wronged party here, her life has blown up by her ex and she needs loyalty at a time when the one person she expects of from didn't. Why would he put restrictions up? He's cheated and probably happy enough that his friends have forgiven him. BUT he is putting demands on you, he's thrown down demands that you accept his bit in the side into the friendship circle or he's out. Is that line you're going to cross?

This! I'd be devastated if i were your female friend.

I have been in the wife's situation OP and you are a shitty excuse of a friend! I was lucky in that the vast majority of our friends were on my side and absolutely disgusted by my ex's behaviour!

I can see your POV and don't think you are being unreasonable to want to remain friends with both. As you say, marriages/affairs are rarely clear cut.

However, I think you are in a position where you are going to have to choose whether you want to or not, as the wife is clearly not going to accept you being friends with the husband and his new partner. There is nothing you can do or say to make that ok for her.

@myphoneisbroken I see that more now. It’s hard not to resent her for ‘making’ me choose (I can see as pp’s have said that her ex is doing the same in a more p.a way though)

I suppose he seems easier because he’s ‘over it’ but of course as pps have pointed out that’s because of his role in it.

Sounds like I’m being naive to expect this to happen now or potentially ever.

Very naïve and unfair to your friend the ex-wife.

He did choose to have an affair, the ex wife did not. You should resent him as he is the one who created this situation, not her. I cannot understand your thinking at all.

@Stickinthemuddle Yeah, it's easy to underestimate just how high emotions can run in an acrimonious split.

It’s hard not to resent her for ‘making’ me choose (I can see as pp’s have said that her ex is doing the same in a more p.a way though)

She isn't making you choose at all. You are wanting her to make the choice for you, but instead she is saying "Nah, the choice is yours."

There will be consequences no matter what you choose. So choose your path wisely.

@HollyKnight what I/we want is for her to get to a place where she could socialise at larger events with them. They do kids’ birthdays and parents evenings etc together (not with the girlf admittedly) which is why it’s frustrating she feels she can’t do more of the things we used to.

I have been the wife in this scenario. The only difference being, that my H was cheating with more than one OW, and he didn't leave me for anyone. I did however leave him, after finding out.

Our friends all remained totally neutral. I received zero support from anyone. I don't know whether that was because I was the "leaver", or whether they just didn't want to pick sides. You have been very good to your friend, and I wish mine had been as supportive.

With regards to invites to things, they always invited us both, and I have shied away from going to much, as it just felt far too awkward. Especially if our (then teen) children were invited - I didn't want them to have to choose which table to sit at. Do they sit with Mum or Dad? Awkward.

Fast forward to now, and we have all recently been together at a function, and actually it was fine, and I am determined not to miss out on anything going forward. But it's taken a long time for me to get to this point. If anything, most of the friendship group gravitated to me, rather than him, which was quite surprising. I really should have been bolshy and just turned up at events, I guess.

So, re your DH's 50th, I would invite them both. Tell them that they are both invited, and that you don't want to choose. It's entirely up to them what they choose to do.

She doesn't want that, though. She shouldn't have to make herself be ok with socialising with him to suit other people. If it wasn't for the kids, she wouldn't have to see him at all. Can you not see how none of this is her doing? Their marriage could have ended amicably. No one had to be betrayed. But HE chose to do something hurtful and cruel to her instead. Then instead of holding him accountable for the hurt he has caused, and for the position he has put you in, you want her to get over it to make your life easier. Because he won't.

Why on earth would she want to socialise with her ex husband and the woman he had an affair with and left her for? Honestly, you need your head examined if that's what you want her to do!

@Stickinthemuddle
Fucking hell, is the answer not obvious? How can you be ok with the husband when he had an affair and then left his wife when she'd just had their baby. Do you have a complete lack of empathy?

I think given the circumstances the wife would have every right to be angry snd upset if you choose to spend time with the ow.

Your lack of empathy for her and the fact that you resent her and not him (even though he too is making you choose) is very telling. This wouldn’t be a difficult choice for me were it my friends and it certainly it wouldn’t be a difficult choice for my friends.

I think you need to take a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself what you would expect of your friends if you were in her position. You mentioned a DH so you’re married. If your DH had an affair, would you be happy for your friendship group to invite you and your DH and the other woman to their 50th birthday parties? Once at the party, if you got overwhelmed and needed a cry which friend would you turn to? The one who was at the table, laughing at a joke told by your DH and his new woman? My guess is you would feel pushed out and like your friends had all chosen your DH and his new woman over your years’ long friendship.

Don’t be silly OP. Presumably they do kids’ birthdays and parents evening together because they have no choice but to co-parent for their children’s sakes? Presumably also, the DH isn’t bringing the other woman to kids’ birthdays and parents evening?

Is it because you don't think sexual betrayal is a serious thing or the cause of real pain? If he had beat her, or raped her, something along those lines, would that pain be serious enough for you not to expect her to be around him? I think it's clear from this thread that people are struggling to understand where your boundaries lie. It seems like you and your partner don't think a sexual affair causes serious enough hurt to justify her wanting to stay away from him, or that he should face any social consequences for being the perpetrator of that hurt.

@Stickinthemuddle

"@HollyKnight what I/we want is for her to get to a place where she could socialise at larger events with them. They do kids’ birthdays and parents evenings etc together (not with the girlf admittedly) which is why it’s frustrating she feels she can’t do more of the things we used to."

Re this, you honestly seem to have no idea how devastated your friend the wife will have been, (and probably still is).

I have attended parents eve with my cheating bastard of an ex husband. I did that for my children, they are my priority. I don't and will never want to "socialise" with him and the OW. I tolerate him as he is the father of my children, I will never want anything to do with her. If one of our friends chose to spend time with the my ex or the OW they would no longer be my friend.