The EBSA support thread (emotionally based school avoidance/absence)

[BrambleyHedge]

Following this thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4996315-a-question-to-all-those-who-think-school-refusal-in-schools-is-increasing-due-to-lazy-enabling-parents?latest=1

I wondered if some people would welcome an EBSA support thread. I haven't seen another one so if there is already one I can delete this one. For those dealing with EBSA - I don't know about you but sometimes I just want to cry and scream with all the stress and I thought it might be healthier to write it down and share with others going through similar issues.

My son is 15 yr 11 and is currently upstairs refusing to go to his mock GCSE this morning. He is too anxious. He is only doing 5 GCSEs and has small group tutoring in his school rather than the normal classes. There are several in his year with EBSA so they have their own group. He is finally being assessed for ASD after 2.5 years in CAMHs list and also finally being assessed for EHCP after mediation due to council refusal to assess. He is what they used to call high functioning but unable to deal with education. I am practically in tears this morning trying to get him to go in. He usually doesn't go in until about 11 so this is early. He doesn't sleep.

So enough about me. If you too are having a crappy morning then please talk.

It would be good if this thread can be for those who are dealing with EBSA. Well meant advice or judgement from others may not always be welcome or helpful. I have tried literally everything over the last two years to get my son to school and am learning much of this is beyond my control. Sometimes there just isn't an answer.

I have put this in Chat for now so it gets seen. It could fit in education, SEN, or some other subjects.

Thank you! I am so proud of her for today. I’ve warned her though to only take it as a pace SHE feels comfortable with and not by anyone’s else’s pace.

DD9 very hard to engage in work, I try but her attention is woeful. She has potential ADHD and I could read a short sentence to her and ask her to repeat it and she wouldn’t have a clue! We had to go to the pharmacy today and she freaked out when she saw the consult room. Again refused to go in unless door was open.

Your poor mum that is awful! 😞

Happy half term all...I am glad not to have the pressure of school lurking in the background but the last few days I've just been a shit mum, I feel like I've burnt out a bit with the worry of everything. Determined to make the best of the week's Holiday though, a few days out, plus rest. DD has been much brighter but still cannot get anything out of her in terms of talking about school.
She is now showering and eating ok though, she's arranged to see a friend on Wednesday, not from her current school though, which is very telling.

I've asked her school to tactfully ask her friends if anything has happened...I still in my gut think that it's something to do with maybe losing a friendship group and the support they gave her disappearing.

Seeing an early help worker tomorrow, she probably won't speak to her though, unlikely to even come downstairs. Will see if she can help me with the EHCPNA application, I've started it but got to a difficult bit.

More and more though I'm feeling so annoyed at the school for not doing more, also a bit guilty I didn't push harder.

For now though it's a sunny day, DD is dressed in bright clothes, wearing makeup and is in the mood to go out, so we will get out of this house for a bit to try to lift our mood hopefully.

Hope you had a nice day out with your daughter!

let us know how the early help meeting goes!

I’ve just had an email through to say they have agreed to an EHC needs assessment for my 9 year old!

@Icantpeopleanymore
Thank god it's half term! Mum burnout is real, you're not a shit mum or you wouldn't be moving heaven and earth to help your DD
Let us know how early help goes, I have an initial meeting the week after next and I'm in two minds whether to decline, because I used to work in early help and don't really see how they can help! I do think it's the luck of the draw in who you get though.

I hope everyone has a restful half term.

The early help worker was lovely, offered help with my son too, who is on the pathway for ASD referral but is struggling with school. Seemed to get the frustration with DD not opening up about any issues. She of course wouldn't come down to meet her at all. She's said she can try to suggest she takes her out somewhere, or meets her somewhere neutral, anything to get her to talk about what is stopping her from attending school.

So fairly positive for now.

Just spoke to DD about next week, said I'm happy for her to be at home for one day a week alone but that the other days she will have to go to my mum's or her dad's. Just got the usual, annoyed stare, angry and terse 'yes'.

It's so bloody frustrating!

I think it's good that you said that to your dd at the beginning of the week @Icantpeopleanymore as she knows 1 she's not going to school 2. That's the alternative. I hope next week she cooperates.

Well so a revelation today...DD has for the last couple of years been gender questioning. Thought she was trans. I've mostly ignored it and supported her by saying she could wear whatever she wanted, cut her hair, love whoever she wants etc but she's still female. Encouraged her to look at gender stereotypes and take her time essentially. I've been waiting it out but it's been really hard as she was so angry every time we talked about it.

She then in year 9 got a girlfriend, plus some good friends, none of which I was allowed to meet. I know they knew her as another name but I just tried to let her know that was fine but I wouldn't be doing it.

Over the summer she then started to wear feminine clothes, listening to feminist music, was so happy and confident with her body. I saw the change as did others. She's trying to grow out her hair and has found amazing female role models.

Turns out these friends have ditched her after she started to question if she was trans or even non binary. The girlfriend too I think. (Although I think the girlfriend thinks she's trans so that made them gay men apparently..I guess being lesbian isn't enough)

Bless her she's so sad. I found out via her tiktok, found it through her insta. She's made insta private now, which is better than it being open to anyone like it was. I've blocked tiktok too. She's still getting onto Instagram somehow but that's ok for now.

She's such a closed book, I've no idea why, I've always said I'm fine with anything she does as long as she isn't hurting herself or anyone else.

I don't know if I'll ever get her back to school now, she's got no support network now and I can only assume they've just made it so difficult for her to be there she can't face it. She also relies on friends just to navigate the day I think.

She's angry I know (which is normal for her) but straight after was really happy, chatty, spent time with me and we had a good afternoon. I've not mentioned it since and I've asked her dad not to as she's got a busy weekend coming up and then school starts back Monday.

I guess I just need to be there for her and give her time. I'll speak to school and hope they can speak to the girls to find out what's happened but I know that really won't help. I know what it's like to have no friends at school and not fit in from my own school years.

I've offered her the option of online school or a new school, and said she doesn't need to decide now but I'm also getting really concerned that I need to get something sorted for her soon.

Still not heard back from the section 19 request and I'm trying to get the EHCPNA request done but I'm finding it so overwhelming. I'm going to need evidence from school first I think. Thing is will they still accept it's EBSA if it's because of friendship issues?

I feel so lost about how to help her, and so sad for her. Bless her she's so lost. But also so proud of her for having the maturity to stand up for herself.

Wow that feels like you have unlocked a door to a mystery room. And it feels more positive that you have a better idea of what you are dealing with.
I'm not sure it would be helpful for school to have a word with the girls in case there's a backlash for your dd online from them?

I remember for a large part of my childhood hating being a girl and being a total 'tom boy' I sometimes wonder if that was today I would have looked at the transgender route.
When I developed a bust I seemed to have to accept being female and that was that.
I feel it's such a normal phase but the age of social media etc has changed life for teens in every area. I find it hard to express how I feel about this subject because I totally get the feeling but I don't feel my generation (X) is looking from the same angle. Whatever we say is not enough or right even though there were trans people struggling in our day too.

I don't think going to school physically is an option for your dd right now I would try as much as possible for her to do her core subjects and something she enjoys even if the school she is at agree to her working from home.

It can seem like time is ticking cos she's in y10 but opportunities to take GCSEs don't end in y11.

My DD did a lot of reading and listening to radio 6 which educated her in the music she liked at the time. Then she started going to crafting classes with older ladies who were kind to her and helping out in a craft shop when she regained her confidence she did y11 at a college there are lots of courses for schools to transfer kids or home ed kids to join now.

Obviously you will have lots of ideas to get creativity juices flowing. She needs a rest from the pressure now and sheltering from people banging on at her about why she's not at school (don't mean you).

Somebody was saying to my dh yesterday about GS6 - " but kids need to be in school".
No kids need educating and sometimes that's hard to do in school.💐

PS I wouldn't make decisions about moving school/online schools yet and try and ask for work to be sent. Some schools have provided laptops etc for this and then you can keep pushing for help with the EHCPNA.
They won't cooperate if you take her out.

Maybe try looking at the £2 tuition hub for some online lessons it's pretty inexpensive and you can test how much she is interested in engaging online.

A lot of EBSA starts with friendship groups.
Funny as my dd27 has just had a fall out with the girl who was a big part of her EBSA 13 years ago. I have no idea why she bothered with her again over the years!

wow @Icantpeopleanymore that sounds like a big step forward.

I went to an Ed Psych presentation on EBSA and it talked about how the reasons the EBSA starts are not necessarily the reasons it continues. It's not a magic fix or anything but I think it's a helpful distinction in helping the student understand it and figuring out what to do next.

DS is definitely brighter these days. We are having more happy moments. It's a sort of out of body depression experience for us - like when you recover a bit from your own low mood, start to feel joy again and only then realise how much it had been absent. Similar thing but all (or mostly) second hand. Our eldest is finding Y13 pretty gruelling so no one is living their best life at the moment.

Just popping my head in. DD3 (15) h has been out of school for a year now. We went down the EHCP route and the LA awarded a place at an independent special school, which gives bespoke 1:1 timetables/teaching. Unfortunately, so far, she has been unable to engage with them.

We got nowhere on the CAMHS front, really. Diagnosed with OCD in June but then left to a waiting list with no end, for a course they know won't help, with the potential for another waiting list for 1:1 therapy.

We decided to get a private psychiatry assessment. £300 later, her OCD has been confirmed and medication has been prescribed.

I have no idea how we move forward. She can't leave the house, can't even go into the garden. Teachers visit the house and sit outside the front door. It's exhausting.

@Lougle your poor dd what an awful way of life. I had a friend who's DD became OCD and tablets and CBT really helped but it was a long journey. No quick fix.
When the teachers sit outside does your dd engage with them inside?

How's everyone fixed for the next few dark weeks? Has anyone got a definite plan or taking every morning as it comes wearing a tin hat?
Solidarity with everyone.♥️

Made a plan for where DD will be every day and I've bargained with her for one day at home alone.. really not looking forward to going back tomorrow to teach!

I've also got to phone the senco to explain that as I suspected the issues have begun because of friendship group, or rather the lack of one. No idea what they can do. If she's being excluded by them then that's bullying I guess.

I'm so relieved to at least have found something out but I'm no closer to getting her back in. Have booked an equine therapy place for her on my day off but I can't see her going, she'll just flat refuse. Frustrating but I guess I'll just have to keep trying.

Hope everyone else is having a good Sunday, it's like a dark cloud on the horizon though, Monday.

@Luddite26 we have 2 30 minute check ins schedules. But DDs 1&2 and I have had covid and DD3's throat is now sore, so it's possible that she's on the way down, which might put a spanner in the works.

Not sure of our plan tbh. We’ve been informed that the LA medical needs team will support my now 10 year old. Declined for my eldest daughter. She did manage 30 mins shortly before half term so hoping we can build on this! Especially as she does want to go! More than I can say for her sister, still terrified of vomiting there and not being able to leave.

both parental ehc needs requests were granted thankfully! But our FSW is worried they will put my 10y olds primary area of need down as SEMH but she also shows ADHD traits so really she wants it to be that rather than SEMH. No chance of an assessment in 6 weeks though! Looking at going privately.

We have to early help review meetings next week so will see what they say also!

@ImAlwaysknackered I'm not sure it matters much what is put down as primary need. Two of mine have started at the same independent special school this term. One has ASD as her primary need, and the other SEMH.

Focus on making sure that all her needs are accurately described in section B, and that all the needs get specified and quantified provision in section F. That will be worth far more of your energy than arguing about whether her needs arise from ADHD or SEMH.

FWIW, the LA can't put unevidenced information in. So even if she is clearly displaying ADHD symptoms, they can't call it ADHD if a medical professional hasn't diagnosed it. It shouldn't stop the provision though. DD3 had absolutely no diagnosis on paper at all when she was issued her EHCP. Her OCD diagnosis came a couple of months later and her ASD assessment isn't until next week, then the ADHD traits aren't even being assessed yet, although everyone sees them. They still allocated her a specialist placement because the reports from her assessment demonstrated that it was necessary.

@ImAlwaysknackered the other thing to know is that the LA only have to seek advice from families, the educational setting, psychological, health, and social care during the assessment phase of the EHCP needs assessment. However, SEND Regulation 6(h) says the local authority must seek: 'advice and information from any person the child's parent or young person reasonably requests that the local authority seek advice from.'

So if you feel that your DD has sensory issues which contribute to her needs, or communication difficulties, etc., you can write to the LA requesting assessments from professionals who could assess those. I requested assessments from Speech and Language Therapy and Occupational Therapy.

Thank you @Lougle that’s really helpful! ☺️

@ImAlwaysknackered I did too with SaLT and OT and our LA stonewalled right through. Long story but we ended up paying for private reports. Hopefully yours will be less intransigent/illegal. We were a bit scared of having SEMH down as a primary need but like Lougle, I don't think it would have made any difference in the event.

@Lougle that does sounds relentless and exhausting for everyone. I hope the meds help her turn the corner.

@ImAlwaysknackered if DD1 is compulsory school age, unable to attend school full time and the LA has refused to make alternative provision, email the Director of Children’s Services threatening judicial review. If that doesn’t work, you can look at a pre-action letter. SOSSEN can help with this FOC. There is a wait so you may want to look elsewhere for a firm to take the case.

You are getting ahead of yourself with the primary need. You don’t even know if the LA will agree to issue. And many LAs wouldn’t even use ADHD as a primary need either a diagnosis. Some don’t even list a primary need, they don’t have to. Focus on ensuring the LA gathers sufficient advice and information from all the necessary professionals e.g. SALT, OT, clinical psychologist &/or psychiatrist. IPSEA has a model letter you can use to request the LA seeks advice from certain professionals.

Hey everyone! So tomorrow my son returns to school - I am acting positive, hopeful, preparing his uniform and lunchbox, allowing him time to relax. Inside I am crying- I know what the next few weeks will bring, the hours of discussions with school, feeling guilty when I see his crying face left at the school gate and the knowledge that with every pressure to attend, his confidence and happiness will deteriorate!

Will it ever get better?

@issy1990 what a lot on an 8 year old's shoulders! Is he still in FT?

Mine's on INSET today and still in bed! I will go up in a bit and enquire about his Minecraft project.

Yeah he’s in FT (I’m presuming it means full time lol- not clued up on the abbreviations yet ha).

His school won’t allow flexi schooling so it’s just a case of seeing how he is day by day.

Minecraft is a god send! I love playing it too!