The parents of the 2 teenagers who murdered Brianna Ghey

[Netball01]

I’ve been following the horrific murder of Brianna Ghey, and it goes without saying that her poor parents / family must be going through absolute hell.

But after the names of the 2 murderers being released today, it’s made me think how on earth do their parents ever come to terms with what their children haven done ?! As far as I’ve read so far, they are just normal people. I just don’t know how you could ever try and move on from this.

Also agree with @Pigeonqueen - my mum had an abusive childhood but was the kindest person you could meet.

I feel sorry for their family. Not their fault that this happened.

It must be impossible.

The mother of the girl actually called the police herself as she knew her child had been with Brianna. That takes some guts.

Everything may have seemed normal on the outside. Who knows what happens behind closed doors...

I've always wondered about the nature v nurture..I personally think some people are just wired wrong 😔

The Mum called the police because SJ said she’d been told by Brianna that she (Brianna) had said she was off to meet a man she’d met online - obviously a lie but the Mum felt the police should know, so not suspecting her dd at all, she rang the police to let them know in the hope it may have led them to find her.

But she has been heard by myself literally justifying or minimising her son's crime by openly victim blaming - it wasn't his fault, we all know
what teenage girls are like blah blah.If this is her attitude in public, what attitudes did her son grow up with??
I do wonder - How much is badness ingrained naturally in him and how much fault lies with her?

It's not necessarily a reflection of what she really thinks. It's a form of self protection

Oh wow. This is all really local to me - not that it makes a difference. I can't imagine what Brianna's family have gone through. I find that statement from SJs mum heartbreaking though. That takes some soul searching so rightly or wrongly my sympathy is with her family too.

But she has been heard by myself literally justifying or minimising her son's crime by openly victim blaming - it wasn't his fault, we all know what teenage girls are like blah blah.
If this is her attitude in public, what attitudes did her son grow up with??
I do wonder - How much is badness ingrained naturally in him and how much fault lies with her?

She may have shitty attitudes. But as wrong as it is, victim blaming happens for a reason - it is a powerful psychological defense. When someone we care about is in trouble, it is pretty much human nature to side with them and try to make an explanation that favours them.

I don't think blaming parents is very helpful, while sometimes like follows like there are plenty of people who have grown up in horrendous circumstances & are very decent adults.
Making this assumption also removes free will, & factors such as peer group influence, the particular mix of the two young people involved & other factors such as social influences (internet etc).
It is always very tragic when young people murder children & it really is an opportunity to look at how we treat children, young people & one another in our day to day lives. I'm not for one minute excusing this awful crime however, if we're to learn anything & avoid the same thing happening we always need to look at the bigger picture.

Some 'normal' parents raise 'monsters' despite treating them with love and discipline. Some horrendous parents raise wonderful adults despite treating them with cruelty and neglect.

That only 'abnormal' parents raise monsters is a tale we tell ourselves to reassure ourselves that it cannot happen with our children. And by and large it won't and our children will be just fine. But don't point fingers and simply that assume that 'it's the parent's fault' when we hear of people like Brianna's killers. There but for the grace of God/the Universe/whatever you choose to call it, go we.

Red rooms are an urban myth and there is no evidence of them existing. Certainly there are sick depraved people who share the most horrendous material online but TOR (the dark web browser) by virtue of how it works (“the onion”) is too slow to live stream such atrocities. Red room “action” advertised on the dark web is invariably a scam whereby sick fools pay money upfront to be give entry to watch something sickening but it doesn’t happen. Cos who are they then going to complain to?

But certainly the internet is able to desensitise people and draw them in to more and more gruesome material if a person is that way inclined.

back to the original question - I do always think in cases where “children” are involved in taking lives or other serious crimes such as child and sexual abuse, it must be horrendous for the parents/siblings. Though in some cases, the parents may also be complete deadbeats/abusers. It’s just awful all round.

Something I read on another the other thread about this which struck me; all the time here on MN we see posts from parents at the end of their tethers because their teenagers have behavioural problems and/or severe psychological/mental health issues and they just can’t get any help. The waiting list for CAMHs is years long in some areas!

Think what it must be like to suspect that your child who you have loved and raised is “not right” psychologically, but not be able to access any help for them. And you have work, a mortgage to pay, other children to care for, all demanding your time and attention. What else can parents practically do?

Hitler's mum was by all accounts a very sweet and loving woman and mother not just to her own children but also her step children.

Look how he turned out.

@Atethehalloweenchocs

"Oh, and the next thing that will come along is the 'they must be mentally ill' brigade"

Yet in a later post you claim to have worked in mental health for 30 years?!

@Rachie1973

'The mother of the girl actually called the police herself as she knew her child had been with Brianna. That takes some guts.'

Or she knew the girl would be caught anyway so it would look better when she is sentenced if she admitted it early on.

Interesting idea, imagine though in reality holding parents responsible for the crime's of their children, it would never happen, a lot of people have trauma, horrific experiences & some who do terrible things there's not really anything to pinpoint.

I think sometimes we really just want to believe it has to be something in their past but it's always a case of how children respond to trauma too & that varies & is about personality, resilience & what other positive influences are around them - what other support they have to help them navigate abuse, neglect & trauma.

The Daily Mail is claiming Eddie Ratcliffe's parents were "loving parents" and it's all the teenage girl's fault.

"Eddie Ratcliffe was a 'role model' kick-boxer who had loving parents. But a twisted friendship led to him brutally murdering Brianna Ghey on the day he met her"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13034483/Killer-Eddie-Ratcliffes-twisted-friendship-kickboxer.html

Not that I believe anything in The Daily Mail!

I would cut contact permanently with my child if she committed a crime like this. It would be devastating but I believe ultimately life is too short to feel tied by a loyalty of blood to anyone who is despicable, be it a parent, sibling or child. People may think you cold for cutting ties, but I wouldn't know how to adapt to that person on any sort of meaningful level if they turned out to be a brutal murderer. There would be no prison visits from me, I would literally sail off into the sunset and seek therapy and closure.

Edited - didn't actually mean to post, I couldn't articulate what I was trying to say and pressed post for some reason instead of refresh 🙄

Exactly this. Nobody wants to consider the possibility that their child could ever be capable of committing a terrible crime and it's reassuring to believe that the only people who do so come from dysfunctional or abusive backgrounds and have bad parents. It doesn't happen to people like us.
And there's some truth in it of course, there often are contributing background factors but not always. The idea that some "normal" young people, just like our own children, turn into violent criminals is much more frightening than always being able to blame poor parenting or things like childhood abuse.

Four days before the shooting they bought him a gun even after he told them he was suffering with paranoia and hallucinations, he asked his parents for help and they laughed at him and told him to "suck it up"

Three days before the shooting the school contacted his parents because of his internet searches, his mum didn't respond but instead text him not to get caught.

On the day of the shooting they had meeting with the school because of drawings he did of him murdering people with guns. The parents refused to take him home or do anything about it. He went home, got the gun, went back to the school and shot his classmates.

His parents fled and it ended up in a manhunt.

People, have some respect and thought for the parents and other sister, who has become paranoid herself. What hell they are going through is not same as hell gone through by parents who at best neglected their child or did not do enough to address their bad behaviour. The killer girl had been planning to kill / harm other kids and a paper note of murder plan was found in her room when she was arrested. Were parents completely hands off? Did they not know why their daughter had to change school and how within 4 months of befriending the other girl she was found murdered. They did not have any ounce of worry that their child had something to do? How did they not find that paper murder plan and researched she did on her favourite serial killers? When the consequences of your child's behaviour are so bad that it destroys 4 lives, and that act is a premeditated murder, then you have some responsibility, even if it was you were being clueless.

*Superlambaanana · Today 21:53

@Atethehalloweenchocs

"Oh, and the next thing that will come along is the 'they must be mentally ill' brigade"

Yet in a later post you claim to have worked in mental health for 30 years?!*

And? Not sure what point you think you are making although you clearly think you are being very clever. I have written about my history of working in different areas of MH over the years I have been on MN.

I said in my post, and have many times before, that I am sick of statements that someone who has committed a terrible crime MUST be mentally ill. They may be and they may not. It might make people feel better to be able to say that (for the same reason it makes them feel better to blame the parents) but it is deeply insulting to people who have MH issues who are statistically much more likely to be a victim of a crime than a perpetrator.

@Redpaisley people are being respectful and are showing respect

But that says the dad is 36. I didn't get the impression he was that young.