The parents of the 2 teenagers who murdered Brianna Ghey

[Netball01]

I’ve been following the horrific murder of Brianna Ghey, and it goes without saying that her poor parents / family must be going through absolute hell.

But after the names of the 2 murderers being released today, it’s made me think how on earth do their parents ever come to terms with what their children haven done ?! As far as I’ve read so far, they are just normal people. I just don’t know how you could ever try and move on from this.

The* not ghetto 🙄

Oh yes I recall hearing about the father buying hai son knives. Is that not an offence in itself? Seems neglectful unless there was some reasonable cause for him to have one, which for most teens there wouldn’t be.

We dont need to know anything about these specific parents to discuss the question the OP is asking

I can't imagine how I'd feel as Isinloy can't imagine my children ever planning and carrying out such a vile crime

@Bladwdoda I think it was mentioned during the trial he bought him a set of knives from Belgium and there may have been a legal loophole as they were collectibles.. I could be wrong on that point but it was definitely said that his dad bought him multiple knives.

The parents of Scarlett have made a statement which is very dignified - thanking Brianna’s mum for her empathy. It must be very hard to know the truth about what your child has done and listen to those details in court.

Not necessarily. They could just be evil people.

Who knows but a horrible sad case all round.

The Times journalist? What has she done?

Do you have a link, I can't find this?

I don’t believe people are born evil. They may have been predisposed or have the potential to be evil but I think something bad happened to them in their childhood to make them like this, be it neglect, abuse or something else.

@Likeagoodday Thread here

India knight still at the Times? http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4692133-india-knight-still-at-the-times

Long story short, she is partner of and has stood by a convicted sex offender ex-MP, with offences against children. Worth reading the thread, I'm already hazy on the details but basically them being in a relationship helped spare him a custodial sentence.

There is quite a bit of controversy surrounding Sue Klebold and whether she has genuinely good motivations, or is a narcissist whose primary interest is in refuting any responsibility for her son's crimes.

I felt very strongly that there should have been some kind of consequence for Robert Thompson's and Jon Venables's parents for their sons' crime. Legally I am sure there was no suitable charge but it felt like morally there should have been.

I recommend "We Need to Talk about Kevin" by Lionel Shriver. It's fiction of course but the narrator's emotional journey feels painfully well-realised.

Supports and defends her convicted paedophile partner, at the expense of her own disabled daughter.

From reading the news about their families it says they were 'respected people' and all seemed normal, friendly and polite.

Who knows.

Oh my lord. That's awful.

I believe both parents are teachers.

It’s definitely not always the family, I know the family of a child killer, they are lovely people who couldn’t do enough for you. However there was definitely something off about the mum from early on, lack of empathy, distant etc - but nothing that would make you think she would do something so awful.

I think we want to rationalise it because it makes us feel better but the truth is there wil be murderers with lovely families and those with poor upbringings.

Yes I can see why you would have to set boundaries with someone who has breached everyone's trust so much. I wish you the best with it all. It can't be an easy or straightforward situation at all.

A lot of parents, many here, would think that unrestricted access to the internet is fine. This quote (from https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/dec/26/brianna-ghey-case-should-prompt-parents-to-monitor-internet-use-says-detective) on the case stands out:

She and her accomplice, Boy Y, traded thousands of messages about torture and killing, a jury at Manchester crown court heard. They discussed murdering various boys they did not like, before settling on 16-year-old Brianna, a transgender girl, as their victim – largely, police believe, because she was “accessible” and “vulnerable”.
Det Ch Supt Mike Evans, head of crime at Cheshire police, said reading through their messages made him wonder: “How do you know what your kids are doing when they are sat with the door shut in their bedrooms?”
He added: “I can only reflect on myself as a parent, thinking, actually, how internet aware am I? And do I know what my kids are looking at – inadvertently or advertently? I think we could all use this as an opportunity to sharpen up.”

I think we want to rationalise it because it makes us feel better but the truth is there wil be murderers with lovely families and those with poor upbringings.

Absolutely this. We find this kind of evil frightening and seek to understand it and explain it. It may be that there were things in their upbringing or experience or that they had irresponsible or just plain bad parents. Or there may not. Immediately jumping to 'I blame the parents' is cruel and stupid and presumably is the same kind of thinking that harasses family members until they have to move. I have not seen anything about the girls parents that implicate them. Yes, she was online in vile sites. But I would bet that the vast majority of kids have accessed and seen things online their parents have no idea about.

This thread raises a few very interesting points. There still seem to be people who believe in good and evil in the biblical sense - as a kind of magic status bestowed by a higher power or the universe. Modern neuroscience has debunked that and we do now know that brain chemistry and life experience combine to shape us and our reactions to every situation. Unfortunately we don't understand enough to combat evil acts with a touch of surgery, though that might not be too far off. Some of the research into why some people with dementia can develop a compulsion to steal is pretty remarkable.

What is for sure is that we are all fascinated by crime. I suspect that's because we all feel slightly 'by the grace of God go I', especially in relation to crimes of passion (agree it's an unfortunate phrase with toxic patriarchy written all over it). Who hasn't imagined the horror of accidentally killing a child after a careless moment driving? Maybe even murdering the mother in law with a bit more premeditation and intended force? ;-)

Could we forgive ourselves or a loved one who committed a crime? Isn't forgiveness the ultimate aim of those of us who are law-abiding, responsible citizens? Shouldn't we ultimately try to forgive everyone who errs? Especially if we accept that the person committing the crime is a victim of their biology and circumstance. Or should forgiveness only be reserved for 'nice' crimes - not child abusers, killers, animal cruelty, rapists? And does forgiveness go hand in hand with trust, or can we forgive someone but simultaneously shut them out of our lives because we don't believe they won't do it again?

These are tough questions. Interesting to debate, but impossible to answer unless we've been there - on all sides, simultaneously.

Oh, and the next thing that will come along is the 'they must be mentally ill' brigade. Sometimes people are just inexplicably evil. And that is terrifying.

Some where along the line the parents have fallen short.
Kids don’t become like this for no reason.

Sometimes people are just able to kill. Could be biology or environment but they are able or enthusiastic to kill.

@ASwimADay found it https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/news/24094895.family-scarlett-jenkinson-speak-brianna-ghey-case/

Is there? I've read a lot of stuff about her and read her book and I've never heard this. She's painfully honest about her son and herself, up to and including admitting that for years she called Columbine a "murder/suicide" because she wanted to believe that her son only took part in the crime in order to kill himself (she admits now that this was deluded). I've never heard her described as a narcissist.