The parents of the 2 teenagers who murdered Brianna Ghey

[Netball01]

I’ve been following the horrific murder of Brianna Ghey, and it goes without saying that her poor parents / family must be going through absolute hell.

But after the names of the 2 murderers being released today, it’s made me think how on earth do their parents ever come to terms with what their children haven done ?! As far as I’ve read so far, they are just normal people. I just don’t know how you could ever try and move on from this.

Does this go for all murderers or is there like an age limit for when it's actually the murderers fault?

I've read Sue Klebold's book and she doesn't come across as a narcissist, nor does she try to absolve her son's responsibility for his crimes. If anything, she is searching for answers as to what she could have done differently and whether she missed any signs that he was planning the shootings. She seems genuinely devastated that the boy she loved could have committed the terrible acts of violence that he did. She also felt unable to grieve the loss of her son as it seemed an insult to his victims. I felt sympathy for her after reading it, she will carry that shame for the rest of her life 🙁

And what do you suggest her parents should have done ? After all we cannot discipline or children these days. There is nowhere for parents to turn when they know their child has gone off the rails. Maybe they should have thrown her out on the street. They no doubt felt helpless

Scarlett’s mum is a secondary school teacher. I can’t imagine what her life must now be like.

@Megifer
@Gloriousgardener11

And is it just the parents? Shouldn't we look at the teachers too, the sports coaches, the church leader who abused them, the other child who bullied them, the punter in the pub who shouted at them, the passer by who looked at them the wrong way?

My point is that the posters here who are trying to distill this, or any heinous crime, down to good vs evil/ parents are to blame, or any other simplistic interpretation, are missing the complexities at play.

I would if it was my child. I would never condone their actions, but I would always wonder what I did/ did not do. I could never disown my child.

I’m not sure why you are asking me this. I was simply stating a fact that she had form for previous poor behaviour. I did not pass judgement on the parents.

Yes. Esther Ghey has been so dignified in her response to the parents and calling for the public to remember they have lost their children in a way too.

It's an interesting question and agree with above poster who said that peoples responses ever to automatically blame the parents must make it hard for people to stay local. But then again I doubt as a parent you ever get over your child being a murderer.

I read somewhere that Scarlets mum is a secondary school teacher.

I've also read on MN how psychopaths present as the most normal of people in public. Not calling theses children psychopaths but highlighting you can't always tell someone's thoughts from their presentation and Scarlett has been diagnosed with disassociation illness with no social empathy.

I don't think there's ever anyone who comes out of these situations unscathed. It's such a horror for all involved and I can't even imagine being involved with any of the parties - victim or perpetrators.

So many peoples lives were destroyed that day.

@LambriniBobinIsleworth @Noseybookworm I've been looking for the psychological material about her that I previously consumed and can't find it. Possibly it was just driven by a few angry keyboard warriors on Reddit 😒

I watched her Ted talk and was moved by how honest and courageous I thought she was.

The parents bought their son a gun

Paedo husband

It would be horrendous to be the parents of a murderer. Truly life shattering. But my sympathy is with the parents of the victim.

Their lawyers write the statements for them

I thought the same thing.

They seem normal, too

I'm the relative of someone who was a victim of the most horrendous crimes, everyday throughout the trial the perpetrator's mother sat in the viewing gallery. She spent the whole trial moaning about evidence being faked, police collusion, expert witnesses lieing etc. Even her own son's evidence like texts and pictures she didn't believe. She laughed at witnesses describing the awful things they saw him doing to the victim. Obviously I'm not saying this is typical, but it happens.

That statement from Scarlett’s parents is heartbreaking. The utter devastation this has caused. Esther Ghey has shown such incredible humanity, I honestly don’t know how she’s done it.

According to the BBC report I read, it was Scarlett Jenkinson’s mother who alerted the police to her suspicions about her daughter being involved in the murder.

I don’t agree with those who say the parents of the perpetrators “must” have been bad parents. Someimes children are born with low (or no) empathy and the reasons are not clearly understood. Others can develop personality disorders later. I know a family whose dearly loved daughter, after a happy early childhood, developed a personality disorder at puberty and threatened severe violence to herself and those around her. She had to have intensive psychiatric treatment for several years but is now doing really well. Their other daughters have had smooth and uneventful passages through adolescence. The human mind is a complex and mysterious thing.

I don’t agree with those who say the parents of the perpetrators “must” have been bad parents.

I think people say that as it's easier to think it won't happen to them etc

*Superlambaanana · Today 20:41

This thread raises a few very interesting points. There still seem to be people who believe in good and evil in the biblical sense - as a kind of magic status bestowed by a higher power or the universe. Modern neuroscience has debunked that and we do now know that brain chemistry and life experience combine to shape us and our reactions to every situation.*

This came across as incredibly patronizing. I have worked in mental health for 30 years, a significant portion of this around adolescents and their families. Time and again I have met kids who have done appalling things where there seems to be understandable reason. Sometimes you can see the precipitants, sure, but sometimes it just seems to be something about that person and the choices they have made. If what you are saying is true, why do so many people from really difficult and horrendous backgrounds manage to put that behind them?

*Hocuspocusnonsense · Today 21:10

It would be horrendous to be the parents of a murderer. Truly life shattering. But my sympathy is with the parents of the victim.*

Cant they both have sympathy? Is it rationed?

To turn this on its head … People who have the most horrendous childhoods - abusive, neglectful ones, even children of serial killers where they themselves were abused by those people - they do not always turn into abusers, in fact 99% of the time they either grow up to suffer with their own internal demons (PTSD etc) or they grow up to be the opposite of everything they’ve endured. Let’s not go down the route of trying to equate a bad childhood or bad parents with turning into a murderer, because it just isn’t consistent.

If you accept this as truth then the reverse is also true - people can have the best upbringing and still turn out utterly awful.

Nature vs nurture is a really complex issue.

I know a woman- I don't consider a friend- whose 26 yr old son raped a 15 yr old girl & is serving a custodial sentence.
The mother seems 'normal' is liked at her workplace, popular & has plenty of friends & support.
But she has been heard by myself literally justifying or minimising her son's crime by openly victim blaming - it wasn't his fault, we all know what teenage girls are like blah blah.
If this is her attitude in public, what attitudes did her son grow up with??

I do wonder - How much is badness ingrained naturally in him and how much fault lies with her?

Like another poster I know the parents of a young man who committed murder. He had exactly the same upbringing as his siblings. Good family. But he exasperated them with his behaviour. Petty crime, fathering children with no intention of parenting or supporting them. No income.
No one blames them at all. It was all him.

I have posted about this before, but there are a couple of high profile cases which have happened nearby to where I live. One family (a murder case that was heavily covered nationally) have disappeared after their family member was convicted. Not just immediate relatives but wider family also have just vanished. One by one their houses have been rented out or sold, and nobody knows where they've gone to. I would do the same to be honest!

Another family was a horrific one, involving child abuse, human trafficking, CSA...absolutely sickening. They've stayed. The mother works in the same office as one of my friends and the whole thing is just bizarre. She's a normal woman on the outside and has tried to carry on as she was, but everyone knows what her child did.

Most likely watching things on the internet...

Are they the ones who bought him, the 15 year old, the gun?