How common do you think involuntary childlessness is?

[Bumpitybumper]

I was listening to a podcast about the falling birth rate and began to think of friends and family members that haven't had children. I would honestly say that the majority had the desire to have children at some point but ended up without children either due to medical or fertility issues or more commonly life circumstances.

For the women I know, it was almost as if they suddenly ran out of time and found they had fertility issues when they decided they were ready for babies (usually mid/late 30s) or they either didn't have a partner or their partner didn't want children. I know lots of people actively choose to not have children but I would say this is uncommon amongst the people I know. I'm therefore wondering if my circle is unusual or is unintended childlessness a much bigger thing than we are led to believe?

I know quite a few women in their 40’s and older who didn’t have children, most of the seemed to want them but just never met anyone to settle down with. All capable intelligent women. I can think of 6 off the top of my head between family and friends.

I know a lot and I am one of them.

Why isn't this talked about more? I just feel like the narrative that women in particular are choosing to prioritise their careers and don't want the financial burden of children is pervasive. I'm not saying these aren't factors but if the majority of women aren't choosing childlessness then surely this is really worrying and needs to be tackled?

How would it be tackled?

I'm in my 40's and only one of the women I know without children is childless by choice (She has a phobia of being sick and doesn't want to risk morning sickness)

I heard on a podcast that 80% of women without children wanted children. But either couldn’t or didn’t meet someone in time. I’ll try to find the source.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/why-being-a-childless-woman-is-rarely-a-simple-case-of-choice-or-infertility-a6901521.html

The figure comes from the work of Dr Renske Keizer, a professor at Erasmus University Rotterdam, who in a 2010 meta-analysis of data from the Netherlands and the US estimated that 10 per cent of women without children are childless by choice, 10 per cent for medical reasons, and 80 per cent by circumstance. Applied to statistics about UK women, it can be estimated that there are (or shortly will be) almost 1.5 million women in their forties and fifties here who won’t have children, with only 10 per cent of those being unambiguously by choice.

^^

For a start by promoting that this is a real risk for women in particular and that they need to prioritise having children if this is something they want. I feel like girls are pushed to focus on education and careers and the assumption is that family will naturally come after that. This clearly isn't happening so women that want children need to be actively pursuing this at a much earlier age.

I think it is talked about quite a lot.

Reckon it's a perfect storm of circumstances:

• Cost of living in the UK especially - many want to be homeowners before they have kids for security and the age at which most people can buy homes is getting older and older
• Lot of research showing men's fertility is declining due to microplastics. Let's see where that goes.
• Less societal pressure that people 'must' have children, so people feel more free to see it as a genuine question whether to have kids at all or not

Tricky isn't it as it seems infertility is a massive problem for many but at the same time we also can't go on breeding like rabbits, the planet can't handle it, and our NHS can't afford more interventions, so I guess there would be limited political appetite to tackle this as a policy issue.

So unbelievably sad! I actually can't believe the stats are so high. It does unfortunately correlate with what I'm witnessing amongst my friends and family.

Takes two to make a baby :-)

The research I've seen on the subject (a few close family members have suffered infertility) suggests the biggest issue is actually male fertility declining for various lifestyle factors.

I also read that factors like maternal weight are more important than maternal age in terms of being able to get pregnant.

Also you could have told me until you were blue in the face that I should've had babies in my 20s but I wasn't going to have a baby whilst renting, living in a houseshare and in a poorly paid job with no maternity rights. Wanting to get pregnant surely needs to take second place to actually being able to raise a child in safety and security. Sadly you need money for that

Of course, I do think a majority of those people would have liked children but for various reasons it didn't happen - either social (no partner/no partner they'd want to have kids with), financial/practical (couldn't afford it, unsuitable housing, unreliable income) or medical. I agree that all people need to be more informed about fertility from a young age, but it is hard to balance that against needing to be hard line about contraception with teenagers. Definitely not just women, that's a very stupid thing to say - I think men are more in need of educating.

Is that by choice? I mean, it's her choice in that she is actively choosing not to get pregnant but from what you've said it's more "I'd like children but I don't want to be sick" so it's more of a phobia/mental health condition that is dictating her situation, rather than a free choice?

(I'm not criticising either way, just wondering what defines choice. I have severe emetophobia and pretty much had a mental breakdown while pregnant due to morning sickness)

It's pretty common.

I don't think telling women that time will run out helps. This message has been shoved down our throats for years, hasn't it? It doesn't change the facts. At the moment, it is expensive to have a baby; it's still frowned upon to go it alone unless you are already of an age where it's become a bit touch-and-go; it's difficult to raise a baby alone. Men are less likely to be told not to leave it too late, and also, their 'too late' is a bit later than ours.

@Bumpitybumper

And how would you tackle it?

I had a long term partner - our expectations were that we would have a family.
For reasons I don't want to go into we we had to separate when I was in my early 30s. I had a couple of flings in my later 30s but no one I would have wanted a child with.
So I got to 40 and I suppose was one of those involuntary childless women.
By that time my friends all had kids and I realised that although I still wacernted to be a mum, I didn't like babies very much and I wasn't much enamoured by the idea of pregnancy either.
So I adopted an older child. He was nearly 8 when he came home. We were perfect for each other- he is now at university so its worked our well for us.
But we have been lucky. Adoption is not the answer for everyone, particularly single women.

Most of the women/couples in my group of friends have chosen not to have children. They're just not interested. One of them has got to an age where she's not met someone in time. We all range from age 29-45.

Do people really need educating on fertility though? Isn't it common knowledge?

For a start by promoting that this is a real risk for women in particular and that they need to prioritise having children if this is something they want. I feel like girls are pushed to focus on education and careers and the assumption is that family will naturally come after that. This clearly isn't happening so women that want children need to be actively pursuing this at a much earlier age.

I think it's men who need more education about fertility - most women I know are aware or very aware of declining fertility life just doesn't happen as they want/need.

The stats quoted upthread seemed to suggest that only 10% of unintended childlessness was due to medical issues so I'm not sure how big of an issue things like male fertility is? I agree obviously that it takes two to tango though.

Agree. I reckon money is the biggest thing for sure. You may want a baby, but you need job and housing security to raise a child

My sister, cousin and I are childless by choice. Or, rather, none of us were willing to have children outside of marriage and none of us married until our late thirties.

It used to be talked about. Then a load of women got offended and decided it was sexist to state biological facts and we got loads of puff pieces in the news about how many women didn't find a partner til 40 and now they have 3 kids and are thinking about number 4 and "it's never too late" blah blah.

So it's one of those things we just can't talk about and another way woke society is screwing over women who want a traditional role in life.

Ooh so if only 10% of unintended childlessness was medical, what was the other 90%? Money / relationship etc?

I am 31 and still TTC so jury not out on that. I have been married since 22 and didn't use artificial contraception but didn't actively TTC until 5 months ago.

But no pregnancies so far. Its a bit strange. A lot of people who don't know the real circumstances would probably say i left it too late or something but the reality is we have never used contraception for a good 8-9 years and i started really young i.e. 22. it may not be actively trying (but was still a choice to not use artificial contraception). i feel like most people who tempted fate so much would have at least one child by now. I mean people in previous generations had 6-7 children in pretty awful conditions as the pill didn't exist!

There are probably more women like me.

I can imagine some people in this situation may not want to talk openly about it outside of people they are very close to. Some people who claim to have never wanted to have children may be putting on a brave face. It's not one you can easily gauge with anecdata.

I'm obviously not an expert and I know that women are made aware of their fertility declining in their late 30s but I think there is quite strong social and economic pressure for people to use their 20s building a career and having fun. Many people on MN have previously suggested that anyone younger than 30 having a baby was probably too young.

It just feels a bit like a game of musical chairs where your told it's all fun and games in your 20s and to an extent early 30s and then all of a sudden the music stops and you're left making really tough choices in your late 30s and early 40s. There is a real feeling of now or never and I feel many end up in the never category.