How common do you think involuntary childlessness is?

[Bumpitybumper]

I was listening to a podcast about the falling birth rate and began to think of friends and family members that haven't had children. I would honestly say that the majority had the desire to have children at some point but ended up without children either due to medical or fertility issues or more commonly life circumstances.

For the women I know, it was almost as if they suddenly ran out of time and found they had fertility issues when they decided they were ready for babies (usually mid/late 30s) or they either didn't have a partner or their partner didn't want children. I know lots of people actively choose to not have children but I would say this is uncommon amongst the people I know. I'm therefore wondering if my circle is unusual or is unintended childlessness a much bigger thing than we are led to believe?

For me I am mostly on the side of not having children. The final nail in that coffin is the lack of good quality men who would be willing to be an equal partner. I wouldn't mind being a dad...

Lack of educated men who will make good partners is a real problem for educated women who are looking for an equal. This is a US article but the same is playing out in the Uk.

www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/07/06/has-being-single-in-america-changed/for-the-college-educated-there-is-a-man-deficit-in-the-us

No idea.

It's not something I would ever ask the childless women I know.

I'm sure they gave their reasons but they are private.

This isn't caused by women being irresponsible. So many of DH's friends spent their 30s saying they weren't "ready for marriage /to be a father". One complete arsehole dangled a proposal and baby to his long suffering girlfriend for years then dumped her when she was 36.

I still have her on Facebook and cheered when I saw an update recently that she'd got married and had a baby last year as I honestly thought AH had wrecked her life.

As for AH, he's finally realised at 40 that he's not a teenager and is facing into the reality that the girls in their 20s see him as an old man, not a possible partner.

Aww this is actually really lovely!

Why don’t we talk about bringing boys up to be capable of being responsible husbands and fathers, instead of running for the hills or bullying, abusing and assaulting their way out?

It's really tricky timing wise. 20's uni, career, travel and fun. A short window of opportunity in early thirties for marriage, housebuying and children and then too late.

I think it's sad when women delay having children (or not having them at all) because of money, it just speaks volumes about the society we live in and the state of this country! I had this fear, but then decided life is too short to miss out on a wonderful experience because of cold, hard cash. So here I am, 25 weeks gone with my 3rd (I work FT though and have a partner).

I know a woman that is childless but not buy choice.
She really wanted children and loved the thought of being a mum loves kids etc.
She married but she put off children until her and her husband had everything in
place.Car house savings just everything she kept saying its not the right time.
Her husband wanted kids and wanted them before his 40s
By the time she had everything it was to late he divorced her after 13 years re married and had 2 lovely children with someone else.
She in her 60s now she is lovely and very honest about it and admits she was overthinking it and wanting to much first to much me me me.
She did re-marry and is happy but the regret is still there she loves her step children but says its not the same (true).

I may be unusual but I don't know any women in my social circle who have had children biologically, not are even TTC (I know one who adopted). They range in age in their late twenties to late thirties and I'm one of the oldest. This includes all the colleagues I work with. None of us are in a position to do so. Anyone I was ever close to (old school friends, friends of exes etc.) who have had kids....they drifted away pretty sharpish after marriage so I haven't seen them during their pregnancies either. I only know because of social media. None of my close relatives (siblings, cousins etc.) have had children either.

I guess baby fever hasn't affected me because I've never been around any!

I had my children in my 20's with a much older man (still with him and married now).
I agree society expects much more from fathers that it ever did, it isn't so much a case of provide for the family financially and the mother will take care of the rest anymore. I don't think this is a bad thing for obvious reasons but I do think it has put a lot of men off fatherhood entirely or at least until they are much older.
It doesn't help that both parents need to be working full time in a lot of cases to afford a basic standard of living so most parents are completely frazzled just keeping things ticking over.....not a great example to younger people/men who are deciding whether a family might be right for them!

There is a bit of a missed step to this though which is that 10% childless by choice does not mean 90% really wanted kids and couldn’t. Quite a lot of people I know were quite ambivalent - didn’t want or not want children. They ended up in circumstances which meant they didn’t have them - but that’s different to really wanting them and being in circumstances which won’t allow it. They would not have prioritised having children as they felt other aspects were more important.

It's really tricky timing wise. 20's uni, career, travel and fun. A short window of opportunity in early thirties for marriage, housebuying and children and then too late.
This! I know so many women in their early 40s desperately trying to meet someone to have a child with.

Amongst my kids friends - couples aged 25- 35 most of them working in IT based careers are earning good salaries and spending it socialising and going on holidays
They don't seem to prioritise buying a home ( they would be able to afford because they are on really high salaries) every weekend seems to be a party or celebration of some kind - they prioritise themselves and having luxuries such as nights in luxury hotels and Spa breaks and expensive hobbies and clothes. They hardly seem to cook at home always having take outs etc.
I wonder sometimes if they might leave it too late for kids by the time they are ready to settle down they will be 40. some of them have said they don't want kids just want to build their careers and travel.
But they are also the first ones to complain about everything being against them economically - I will never afford my own house etc.

I'm in this situation. I'm happy to talk about it, but the truth is that hardly anybody ever asks. I think married/partnered women without children are probably being asked all the time, but everyone can understand why a single woman has no children.

I know someone who had a child by donor sperm, but that's not the choice that most women make.

We need to get away from this idea that women should wait for the 'perfect' relationship to have a baby.

Half of DCs born into relationships don't grow up with both parents anyway.

It's not worth delaying childbearing so long that it ends up never happening.

Women also need to be told that 19 is the best biological age to have a dc and fertility reduces from 25 not 35 as is commonly believed.

There are so many advantages to having DCs in your 20s women need to be told this.

I've told my DCs to try to have DCs before 30.

"All I would ask, for those of you who have kids, please handle the subject with sensitivity and please don't push for answers if we're reluctant to freely talk about it. It's a brutal topic and I've lost count of the times I've walked away from gatherings with a lump in my throat"

On the other hand, I read a post here once telling women not to tell another woman that 'she looks like a natural' when holding a baby. That made me really sad because it's been said to me a couple of times and while I know I'm not really good with babies it helped a lot to make me feel that there is nothing wrong with me as a person/woman and that I could have been maternal if the opportunity had been there.

Me. 39, wanted children
Never met anyone to have them with and can't afford a child by myself so it is what it is

"We need to get away from this idea that women should wait for the 'perfect' relationship to have a baby."

Oh no. You'll be tied to that person for at least 18 years! It doesn't have to be the perfect man, but it has to be someone reasonable that you can co-parent with.

"Women also need to be told that 19 is the best biological age to have a dc"

I think it's already well known that young women are biologically in a good place to have children. The problem is the emotional and mental maturity required.

You have about three years left if you meet someone now.

This is pretty much the worst advice I’ve ever heard. Yeah, have kids with whoever happens to be around when your fertility is at its peak. Don’t worry too much if he’s violent, or abusive, or criminal, or controlling, or an addict, or uninterested in being an active parent, or just a lazy, feckless slob. It’ll be worth being shackled to him for 18+ years, even after he no longer has any incentive to treat you with any respect or consideration whatsoever. Good call.

I could have easily ended up childless not by choice. I had a husband who kept delaying having children until he left me. I thought I had done all the responsible things, we had talked about wanting children, but I still found myself single and childless in my 30s.

I count myself lucky every day that I found love again and have a child to raise.

So interesting. Most of my friends don't have kids. Some are putting it off and some have "social" infertility as in single and can't afford to go it alone or don't want to. We are mid thirties so will be interesting to see what happens in the next five years.

We have one and I'd love more. I wish I'd started earlier so I didn't have to worry about my age and fertility but that is life!

I was 23 when I was told it would be very unlikely I'd have kids. I wasn't trying or even thinking about it , I had a medical incident and it was discovered then.

My boyfriend then wasn't bothered and hasn't gone on to have children. My second boyfriend said it was unimportant and then later had a child with someone else.

Then I was single for 10 years.

Nothing I could have done about it even if I had only learned this later.

I think a lot of blame is placed on women for this, and that they are all “focusing on their careers” too much to have a family in time. I know many, many women (myself included) who attempted to date and meet someone throughout their whole 20s and early 30s, and a lot of men now just do not want to settle down until much older.

Personally, despite being a high earner and committed to my career, I wasn’t “putting off” having children - I just couldn’t find a man who was interested in settling down with one woman and having them. The same is true of a lot of my friends. I managed to find someone and now have a baby. Many of my friends haven’t yet, and continue to date.
Values have changed and women pursuing their career are not the issue here.