Acid attack in Clapham

[PawsAndReflection]

Has anyone else seen this horrible news story? Apparently 9 people have been injured, looks like the original targets were a woman and two children.

What is WRONG with people?!

If it were easy, UK and rest of europe would have done so.

We'd create untold problems for ourselves if we forcibly returned migrants to France, you could pretty much guarantee a trade war with the EU, withdrawal of consular staff, even clashes between French and UK navy's, sending military craft in to French waters, against french wishes, would be an international disaster.

Could return to Libya, if backed up by military force & we ignored the almost certain mass drownings.

Or they’re vetted. Or stop economic migrants. Or help countries where less employment/tourist trade so the men have more chances to work and create a life for themselves there. Different if they’re refugees fleeing war and torture

Just one problem with that last bit, Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain: coached by the useful idiots, too many who aren't fleeing war and torture have a prepared story to tell ... their mother and sisters were abused, their father shot, their brother flung down a well and so on, and precisely because they often come from failed states there's no way to check any of this

Those same enablers believe it all only too easily though; try asking a "refugee worker" how they can know any of this to be so in an individual's case and watch the 1000 yard confused stare

Yes, it is unjust that some countries are more dangerous for women than others but the solution to that injustice should be to improve life in those countries, not to bring about fairness by making everywhere equally as shit. These arguments that some women are privileged bitches who need to show their awareness of that privilege by allowing predatory men into their midst are awfully familiar.

If as you say, they are from failed states, where there is documented and observed such human rights abuses, how can you be so sure they have not been?

btw i'm not saying people do not lie but there must be quite a compelling reason to say leave Sudan, pay 000s to traffickers, risk death and abuse crossing into Libya, then risk further death (very real) on a rickety boat in the Med, stay for weeks in a flea infested camp in N. France before getting to the UK and being locked up on a barge/camp/or a cramped hotel for years on end.

I mean why?

The same reason so many did from Albania and now we return and they do not

Well Albanians can take a fairly safe land route to the UK and as there is already a very well established Albanian community here in the UK, can seamlessly start work.
They were clearly economic migrants too, its a very safe country, my DD and partner went there last year, huge amount of economic activity happening there too, as tourism grows.
They also seem to have a very found attachment to London - Weird!

I'm talking about sub Saharan migrants & where we will never have retunrs agreements with these war zones/failed states.

Sorry about anyone with cancer but does this same asylum seeker have a wife and 6 kids to follow, HIV, need a new hip, rotting teeth need fixing, mental health issues, diabetes and on and on financially where does it end.

It is unjust that some countries are more dangerous for women than others but the solution to that injustice should be to improve life in those countries, not to bring about fairness by making everywhere equally as shit

I agree completely, EsmaCannonball, but don't feel that it's the west's job to stampede around imposing our perception of a decent society on others - we simply buy ourselves a packet of trouble from those who resent their own approaches being challenged, and as with the Taliban's return in Afghanistan the status quo quickly reasserts itself

IMO a nation's internal arrangements are their job to address - and ours is to keep out the more malign results, while also dealing with the issues we've created with our own

If as you say, they are from failed states, where there is documented and observed such human rights abuses, how can you be so sure they have not been?

I can't, jasflowers, but then that's not our job since it's for the person making an assertion to prove it, especially when the "coaching" mentioned is so well known

As for "Why would they risk the passage?" this comes with assumptions that life is valued in the same way worldwide, which simply isn't the case. If it was, we wouldn't see thousands prepared to martyr themselves and even their innocent children in deranged causes, "honour" killings, minors sold into servitude or prostitution and much more

Let's all just recognise that if his sexual assault case had actually been given a proper sentence he might have thought twice about behaviour like this. This is a men issue with men making laws based on their criteria for harm as a man.

Up until a moment ago people were arguing with the same lines for Albanian men (mostly men)

The rules changed and everyone accepted it

It’s what happens, it happened in Aus everyone just said ok and it was far better not dealing with deaths and boats etc

The period now where people are wrangling over it is frustrating but I assume it will only go in one direction

Trafficking will be more obvious, gaming the system will be too - no one can deny this criminal did exactly that

People fleeing hostile regimes, of course there’s a reason why!

But don’t let’s fool ourselves that people not fleeing hostile regimes are anything but economic migrants. Which is all well and good if they have jobs, sponsors etc in UK. I used to work for an immigration lawyer pre Brexit. And then he didn’t do that but we had a Korean and Iranian lawyers for clients from those countries, mostly, we still got the odd European client.

Albanians aren’t fleeing war torn countries. In fact one of my ex boss clients was a lovely Albanian who arrived pre 2010, yes started a car wash business but was the most straight person ever.

My brother’s ex GF from about 15 years or so ago came to England via pretending to be Italian with a false passport, she is actually Albanian. She was nice and not nice but had mental health issues. She’s now living in Germany. She stated she wanted to leave Albania as traditionally it was male dominated and oppressive towards women, eg she may have been forced into marriage.

No idea! Not a clue. Silent on that. Think he was Iranian.

It isn't a positive. It it's no more a negative than having our own violent men. Why is it whenever something like this happens, people look at every single possible factor (Wayne Couzens = a problem with the police, Rochdale = a problem with Pakistani culture, this guy = a problem with Afghani refugees), rather than considering the obvious common denominator - that it's always, always bloody men?

You may not think so, but Western countries have made a lot of progress. It’s not okay to sexually assault or rape a woman who isn’t dressed ‘modestly’. If you direct your message at ‘all men’ they won’t even listen, because they know it’s for native British men.

Someone’s got to be helping him… otherwise, how can you just disappear
like that? He’s burned ffs.

The people who are helping him are just as bad as he is. Maybe they fear backlash though.

Sad, but very true. Last week there was a Useful Idiot on here who fully believed the tall tale told her by an immigrant porter in her hospital. That (despite being illiterate) he was in fact a skilled, experienced surgeon who had learned purely by observing operations performed in his home country. Yes, really! When questioned how she knew his tall tale to be true, she flounced.

These credulous idiots are out there, in droves, FFS.

It’s sad though as this thread brings out frothing and migrant/immigrant/refugee disbelief and hate. When most of us, are in favour of controlled immigration/migration/refugees. We are just fed up with the government taking the piss on this subject and either saying stupid things like Rwanda project or stop the boats and not working on the legislation around allowing a refugee to remain here after he’s committed a previous crime.

I’m slightly different in that I do want to control and vet

I don’t want to leave it to chance and gamers taking advantage, and then we have to deal with the outcome

Plus there are loads of benefits from control. You get to choose who you want, you could even make this smooth for them when they arrive as we did for Ukrainians

I read from Afghanistan.

Have you a (reliable) link to this? or is just hearsay? on the 'net

Was this Mnetter an immigration officer? or a random who may or may not be genuine.
You simply have no idea if these people exist in droves or not.

Of course we need to vet etc but once here, the fact remains is there is often no where to deport too, so what then?

This seems to be the Q no one is willing or able to answer nor is anyone able to say how they would stop a dinghy on its way here across the channel.

This is a really interesting point because you’re right, it’s not the West’s job to impose its values. However, your comment reads as though this is not something the UK does on a regular basis for its own self serving reasons. I’m in no way saying it’s completely the west’s fault but in many of these origin countries you can pinpoint how western (or Russian in fairness) interference has a part to play, for example Libya, the rise of Isis, Iraq, Afghanistan. There is an element of cleaning our shit up here.

I’m not seeing any ‘frothing’, just people concerned for their safety.
Calling it frothing and racist makes it impossible to have a sensible discussion about migration which is why we’re in this mess