Constance Marten & Mark Gordon - Baby A case

[SportMum1982]

What have I just read? What the actual fuck is wrong with the world. That poor baby. These utter idiots. Sorry I’m so so angry.

Constance Marten and partner ‘killed baby to keep her out of care’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/24e56090-f175-4bf8-ac07-380621d9954f?shareToken=186074e86c05c4df704ef1889186acdc

Anyone else think after a certain point you should be able to enforce a hysterectomy or some form of sterilisation? I know I’m probably being unreasonable

Theres quite clear criteria about what makes someone mentally ill.

Bad choices, different thinking isnt an illness. Abnormal psychological motivation isnt an illness. Dysfunctional behaviour isnt an illness.

Not normal and not right, but not ill.

No, I'll never be in agreement with giving the state the power to forcibly sterilise people. I understand why it seems like a reasonable solution though.

Poor Victoria. I don't know how they thought they could escape capture though? Madness.

Thank god her other siblings have been rescued. Must be heartbreaking for the foster/adoptive parents to see all this. The details of the lidl bag and the baby with no socks in January in a wood are so very, very sad. Tragic.

It’s making me remember that other lovely pair who where from a very well to do background and had loads of kids and were found in their Chelsea mansion over dosed and dead.

They're going to need to explain this to the kids when they're old enough. Very difficult

Would the parents have a say that who the children DIDNT go to? I wonder if the parents could specify her family couldn’t have them and if those wishes would be respected for out of family adoption. Or maybe the family want them to be far away from the parents? Safe in the system?

The heir to the tetra pack fortune?

No, but I think they should be able to strongly incentivise if not force contraceptives in extreme cases where multiple children have been removed. When I think about it, it is horrible we are suggesting people not have autonomy over their own bodies. But it’s like if somebody is mentally ill, I think they can be given their drugs by injection without consent so they are covered for months at a time. I would just be worried that as a policy it would get abused.

No they cant specify that.

If the LA's care plan is for the children to go to x aunty or y uncle, that can be contested at the final hearing where the judge orders what happens.

Parents can contest the LA's care plan if its one of adoption too, again the judge makes the decision on what is the right care plan after hearing the evidence.

Tricky question. Usually parents want their kids to go to family over being adopted, because that allows for some ongoing relationship. If there were suitable family members wanting to be assessed but the parents weren't in agreement the judge would make the decision about whether the parents' views would be given weight. Honestly I doubt it. It's almost always best for children to stay with family above adoption.

Ive had a number of parents over the years who have detested the fact that their child has been placed with x or y family member. Coming back to that concept that its 'their child' and the family member has unjustly 'stolen' the child from them.

I have just been reading about this on the Guardian website and it has left me in a state of shocked incomprehension. The utter cruelty of it, that poor poor baby girl.

Well, one parent was/is a convicted sex offender. That might have been a factor given the severity of his offending history.

Only the lady died. He has remarried now and is apparently clean.

Horrific.
I remember at the time so many people saying “They obviously don’t want to be found, leave them alone” etc - clearly the police had more info than the public and had every right to be concerned. A lot of people thought it was because she was from money that an effort was being made to find them, but I always thought it was obvious to anyone with a brain that there was a lot more to it.
i hope they get the punishment they deserve.

I wish I hadn’t looked at that link to the brother. I can’t believe how well to do they are like Saltburn level and the mother working in MH. Sometimes families won’t take the children in after the first couple I’ve seen it before. Sometimes their child has taken them to hell and back so they let the grandchildren go into the care system to cut ties with their child. We will never know and nor should we. It’s just tragic for that baby and siblings. I feel nothing for her.

It's sad the bag survived longer than the baby.
Sick , twisted fuckers.
Life somewhere very cold and very dark.
Hopefully they won't be allowed to communicate after sentencing.

@CastleHunter never been to a forensic mental health hospital then?

I think you've misread my comment. I said the hospital is the worse option out of the two...

Shit story Shit people. Not worth the time of day.
4 kids already taken in care what an absolutely burden on the social services, should have been sterilised.

@CastleHunter nope I haven't misread. I work in one, it's like a holiday camp. Seriously wished I could check in myself on occasion

I was wondering about what happened to this case. There's almost definitely some mental health issues, also actually drugs I suspect., It is deeply traumatic having a child taken into care & adopted - some people never get over this & the system offers no support to women (or men) in this position.
(Speaking from being an ex social worker.)

And, just like with anything, this becomes a pattern & social services (not all of the time) but sometimes, will just be complicit in the pattern - creating an ongoing situation where the parent is continually re-traumatised, having babies, thinking this time it'll be different, yet without knowing or having support to do the work needed to change the pattern, so the children will be again removed. Thereby creating more damage & trauma.

I am not justifying what they did but damaged people who are incredibly traumatised do damaging & irrational things. I find this case incredibly sad.
RIP - lighting a candle for the baby tonight.

The proceedings concluded for all 4 children at the same time. Theres no evidence (at this point) that she had each child in turn, who was removed and adopted and then went on to have the next.

I take your point though, we often talk about this at work as to why there is so little support for parents who have had children adopted/removed.

Would you oppose forced sterelisation of these two?