Constance Marten & Mark Gordon - Baby A case

[SportMum1982]

What have I just read? What the actual fuck is wrong with the world. That poor baby. These utter idiots. Sorry I’m so so angry.

Constance Marten and partner ‘killed baby to keep her out of care’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/24e56090-f175-4bf8-ac07-380621d9954f?shareToken=186074e86c05c4df704ef1889186acdc

If the adoption was a friend & family arrangement, this would need agreement with the parents, & is more likely to be open. However it may be that no family came forward.
What a horrific case.

Never heard of contraception. You don't have to keep having babies, how ignorant.

I disagree sorry @RowanMayfair my brother should be sterilised. 1 child adopted, 2 children he has no contact sign-pays no/little child support-he's on benefits so it's entirely up to the mum, 1 abortion, 1 adopted (second one different mum to the other adopted child), 1 on the way. 6 kids, 5 mums. I doubt he will be a positive influence on the baby who hasn't been born yet. He needs stopping/women need to wise up.

There is an excellent programme ive refered many mums to called Pause. It's aimed at preventing further pregnancies in mothers who have had previous children removed or working with the issues that have caused this to happen if mum is pregnant already

www.pause.org.uk/what-we-do/

As you say soupfiend that is a large gap in provision. Further, the number of children in care who go on to have children of their own who are then placed in the care system is far too high. I don't have figures for that but the frequency, from observation, is high. 'Care' can be a misnomer, far too little attention given to mental health.

You don’t need agreement from the birth parents, just like with adoptions that aren’t based on kinship care, you need the agreement of the judge. The birth parents can offer their agreement, but it doesn’t hold any weight, it just gives the illusion of choice to birth parents.

Friend who was a Social Worker phoned me late one evening for a hand hold. She’d had to remove a newborn baby from its mother, was very upset. It was the mum’s 8th child, all in care or adopted. She was distressed saying she wouldn’t be surprised if she had to collect no 9 next year. Deemed no mental illness or special needs in the mum, she just thought it would be different each time tho obviously hadn’t changed whatever needed to change. ( obv I don’t know what, confidentiality) But apparently this is a common thought pattern. It’ll just be “different”
RIP baby Victoria, you deserved much better.

I know, it made me want to bang my head against the wall. People saying social services should back off and mind their own business... FFS. Children have a right to safety; they aren't their parents' property to do with as they wish.

Pregnancy is quite a powerful drug for some. It serves a purpose. The child inside is an afterthought for some, or they cant connect to it.

If there was an intention to kill the baby, they’d be charged with murder.
it’s not being said that they intended to kill the baby.
it’s being said that their gross negligence resulting in Victoria dying which is equivalent to their killing her through their actions (or lack of action in that they concealed the birth, neglected the baby, did not act in the baby’s best interest. Therefore manslaughter by gross negligence.
I could kill someone totally unintentionally and still be convicted of manslaughter.

Because having a child taken from you can create a trauma cycle. It's really traumatic & absolutely no support for parents in this position from SS. This needs to change to avoid repeating the pattern.

Apologies I might be out of date. I used to work in fostering & adoption & friends & family agreements were almost always done with agreement of the parent (s)

Her parents are a bit odd by all accounts so not sure its accurate to say theres nothing in her upbringing

Constance’s father’s family were neighbours of my exdh.
Constance’s father Napier used to be a commercial helicopter pilot which is a job carrying a lot of responsibility. But then he became eccentric - not sure how to describe it - and left his wife Virginie and dropped most of his old friends.
He would’ve inherited the substantial Crichel estate and his mother (who, as opposed to his father, owned the estate) cut him out because she felt him to be irresponsible and left it to two daughters. Some say they were supposed to hand it on to Napier’s son Max but this didn’t happen and the estate was sold and the money divided up between four daughters. I don’t know if Napier got his share or not.

Yes, Napier did become ‘odd’ but I really don’t see that’s an excuse for what Constance did. She was in a Nigerian cult for some years but again that doesn’t excuse what happened.

maybe the birth grandparents/aunt/uncle were willing to take the children but weren't thought able to protect them from the birth parents

Hello all,

While we understand that this is a high profile case that is in the press, and emotions can run high, we just want to remind you to avoid speculation which could prejudice a fair trial. You can read more about Contempt of Court here:

www.gov.uk/contempt-of-court

No one has yet made the biggest point of all.

Well done to the SWs who saved the lives of the first four children. Absolute respect.

@ClaraMumsnet if it’s safer to remove the thread please do! I don’t want any of us getting in trouble. Perhaps to only discuss after the verdict then. Apologies

I wonder this too. Were they not allowed to adopt the children or did they not want to?

I was just about to say the exact same @FrancisSeaton and have wondered why it has never been rolled out UK wide. I think it’s still London boroughs based.

@Cheesehound I'm in Yorkshire

@Cheesehound it needs to be rolled out and quickly. Someone I know adopted a child recently and they were the 11th one taken from the same mother. All at birth as well so not like they were ever a family and things went wrong

Were they even aware? She was estranged from them. I don't know how this works - would the authorities proactively make contact with them to ask if they wanted to look after her kids? Even if she had refused to give their details?

Indeed
@RedRidingGood I don't think Constance had a relationship with her parents for them to even be considered

Were they even aware? She was estranged from them.

Yes, neither of her parents had seen her for some years.