Constance Marten & Mark Gordon - Baby A case

[SportMum1982]

What have I just read? What the actual fuck is wrong with the world. That poor baby. These utter idiots. Sorry I’m so so angry.

Constance Marten and partner ‘killed baby to keep her out of care’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/24e56090-f175-4bf8-ac07-380621d9954f?shareToken=186074e86c05c4df704ef1889186acdc

I wasn't making a dig, @SportMum1982 apologies if you felt I was. I just wanted her recognised properly. Poor mite.

Well the article gives some answers, one child was abandoned and another didnt access medical care

The only reason children are removed and do not return to their parents is because the parents cannot and will not in the future meet their needs and keep the safe.

Nobody said they murdered the baby. They did say they killed her though. It’s possible to kill someone through action or inaction(manslaughter) and it not be murder.

Can I just ask, what / who exactly are families like this? I find them completely baffling as she at least obviously had family resources to give her children a reasonable life (I understand more if parents are from dire deprivation themselves). But you say this isn’t uncommon? Why are these people like this in your experience?

Iirc she had already given birth in the car before it was on the news.

I remember this case last year and the hunt to find them. I do think that there is very clearly poor mental health at the root of this…

Not condoning at all but I believe Constance particularly was really vulnerable and due to this sadly so was her newborn child.

I still however can’t get my head round how her life played out, I’m not meaning the money or class that she was brought up in, I understand that mental health and issues don’t curve around the privileged but I remember all the articles and snapshots of her life and she came across as a very articulate, bubbly educated and put together young adult, I believe her thesis was online as were pictures of her travelling…

The two versions of her just don’t correlate in my mind…

Mental health issues, domestic violence, substance misuse issues (or a combination of the three) with no evidence of understanding or willingness to change. There could also be concerns about parenting capacity, home environment, potential for neglect.

Well wasn’t he a convicted sex offender?

Let’s not forget he is a convicted rapist. No idea what’s going on with her? Why would anyone behave like this? Drugs?? But running around with £££ cash and choosinf to sleep in a tent in January with a newborn?

From reading court proceedings she was hiding at least 2 pregnancies and was homeless with one baby (sleeping in tent). One baby they left behind in hospital.
from the photos in her facebook page the children look well and well fed and clothed. Doesn’t look like the children were all taken at birth.

Totally agree. It doesn’t sound from the coverage of the opening statement today as though there was any intention to kill the child. Sensationalist clickbait headline as usual.

I can’t really say too much other than I have zero experience of working with families from super privileged backgrounds - this is an odd case. My experience has been of families from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, with presenting issues of domestic violence, substance misuse, mental health issues or a combination of these, where there is no evidence of understanding or willingness to change and the level of risk posed to children through this is high enough to result in significant harm, or the risk of it.

Yes https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/mark-gordon-constance-marten-florida-rape-missing-b2267237.html

The care proceedings were concluded in 2022 and their first child was in 2017 so they wouldnt have been all removed at birth.

Here is a thread about the other children https://x.com/totalcrime/status/1750547332356100592?s=46&t=eWOH7yl1dnRoazLIIrwj2w

Yes, and also completely dissociated from the reality of the situation they placed the baby in.

They were cunning in the implementation of their plan to stay under the radar - faking identity while pregnant and hiding from authorities for so long.

They were unable to comprehend any reality apart from what went on inside their heads, and in denial that they had behaved in a manner that warranted the removal of the other children.

I do think that there is very clearly poor mental health at the root of this…

I am sorry, but I really dont think this is a given, or that she was vulnerable. It is a possibility those things are true. But is also possible this was a result of an combination of arrogance, entitlement and the sort of new age beliefs that often reject western medication. The mention about being naturalists was a red flag for me. I have unfortunately assisted in the removal of several children from families where the problem was not MH, simply that the parents rejected the usual ways to do things and this had caused problems to their children (ie. ongoing failure to seek and use medical care for chronic problems for their children). There is room for a range of beliefs in the world. But there is a line between parental choice and child endangerment. These people made the choice to keep having children, despite losing custody of their existing children. FWIW, most of the patients I have worked with who have severe MH issues have decided never to have children because of concerns about how they would be able to cope. I am talking about young women getting hysterectomies in their 20s, that kind of thing.

Thank you. I'm not minimising by any means. I'm a social worker. Understanding why people do the things they do is my job. I am interested in their motivation, I'll acknowledge that.

Her family members being there makes me
wonder if they are paying for top lawyers for her to get her out with as little time as possible and away from him (and whether her defence will argue she was coerced or something similar and try and take him down).

@flernei
The assumption that privilege / wealth equals a good, solid start in life in the socio-emotional sense is a mistaken one.

The article has been updated since first posted. She gave birth to one in a camper van (assumption being the conditions weren't safe for a baby) and left another one in hospital after giving birth.
They don't believe in medical attention for their children. They likely have a lot of other unusual and dangerous beliefs about what's safe and appropriate care for babies. I'm sure there was plenty of evidence of neglect and harm, if the children are being placed for adoption.

Interesting dividing line, I would characterise susceptibility to conspiracy theory alternative lifestyle cult type stuff as a type of mental illness, particularly when it leads to physical harm to a child.

What has haunted me from the opening statement is that one of the witnesses saw them in a nature reserve in that very cold January carrying the baby "with a floppy head" with no socks, no hat and no blanket.

Also the bit about the baby having lived most of its life in a Lidl "bag for life"

I'd say it's the same set of issues here. I have no access to inside info at all, but people are all the same regardless of the income of their parents

If Constance’s family/parents have so much resource ie cash at their disposal why on gods earth did they allow all of these children who are their own relatives into the care system? It’s so bizarre. What drugs were the couple on? If any? Were they in psychosis. Personality disordered?