Constance Marten & Mark Gordon - Baby A case

[SportMum1982]

What have I just read? What the actual fuck is wrong with the world. That poor baby. These utter idiots. Sorry I’m so so angry.

Constance Marten and partner ‘killed baby to keep her out of care’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/24e56090-f175-4bf8-ac07-380621d9954f?shareToken=186074e86c05c4df704ef1889186acdc

Interesting dividing line, I would characterise susceptibility to conspiracy theory alternative lifestyle cult type stuff as a type of mental illness, particularly when it leads to physical harm to a child.

Yes, @Heather37231 , those things may certainly appeal to someone with MH difficulties. But I dont see the two as inevitably related, more of a syllogistic link, ie unusual and dangerous beliefs appeals to a lot of people with MH issues have unusual and dangerous beliefs, but not everyone with unusual beliefs has a MH problem. These things are continuums surely, like anti vaxxers, etc etc.

I’m confused by this as well! Strange that none of the family took the children

I read at the time that her father gave all his money away 🤷🏼‍♀️ quite likely that some of her odd beliefs came from them. If the kids are being adopted rather than placed with her family then either they didn't want them or there was nobody suitable for whatever reason to care for them.

I dont get your comments about reality and denial

She for one (doesnt mention him) faked a lot of information about herself to purposely avoid authorities. For this child who died, she sets out herself that she knew she would be asked about the body and so she was planning a cremation to hide the evidence. She sets out very realistic and manipulative thinking processes in order to achieve her outcome

Maybe the children are being cared for by relatives? I don’t think this would be made public to protect them. It seems she had normal contact with her family before she met him (insta photos with her SIL etc) but wasn’t at her brother’s wedding when they were already a couple. Maybe they fell out over this relationship and lifestyle?

Do we actually know that they aren't placed with family by SS?

Some people believe that their children are their absolute property and theirs only to decide how they live and even die. It's a very disturbed and disturbing way of thinking but it's really not uncommon. We might say they don't inhabit the same world that we do - they certainly don't view the world and more importantly other people the way most do. It appears that this couple were very deep in their 'naturalist' beliefs and therefore may have believed that it was better for the child to die in a natural state than be safely cared for by people they don't trust. This is speculation but what I think may have happened.

Family members are always assessed if they come forward, it might be that they too were not able to keep the children safe, or they didnt want to come forward to care for them.

We don’t know this and that’s correct as their identities deserve to be protected. Taking on 4 children is a lot and her DB only recently got married and maybe it was too much for her DM. I don’t know if she has other siblings.

@Lunde never thought of that before

Someone above said they are subject to placement orders which means they are going to be adopted but I have no idea if that's true or where it came from. They may well be with family.

The article mentions placement orders. Certainly not impossible that family adopted them, but its more usual for family to have SGOs rather than an adoption.

They’ve been linked to a charismatic Nigerian pastor, now deceased named TB Joshua, who the BBC recently investigated over allegations by his former followers of repeated rapes, torture and sexual abuse.

Social workers get a lot of criticism but they were absolutely right about removing children from these two.

I know this, its my job

What Im saying is, she knew the reality because she was careful about covering her tracks, trying to use the best information to avoid authority, so its not just 'her reality' as if she is in some sort of psychosis or PD (she might be however)

I’ve just read the past children thread.
So many times Social workers get a bad press. Look at the children they have saved there from a most probable horrific life and death. They tried for Victoria. Thinking of that precious little girl

One of her brother’s wedding was in Vogue last year https://www.vogue.com/slideshow/a-romantic-late-summer-wedding-in-dorset-england

apparently their mother is “ psychotherapist specialising in trauma, family therapy and grief, with private practices in Shaftesbury and Notting Hill”

so despite the eccentric father there is definitely still money in the family. He did not give it all away or at least the mother seems to be independently wealthy also.

Probably not right to link brother and mum into the thread, they have done nothing wrong

I also have never really understood this. Those poor kids. Why are her family being lauded as so great? Don’t get me wrong, the fault lies with the two of them but didn’t her father swan off and leave them to live his best life when she was a child, and now seems happy giving statements to all and sundry. He doesn’t sound all that well either.

I will never understand how women get into situations, where for a man they will put their children at risk like this.

The mum attended the court hearing today, everyone can use google. The information was from an article from last year.
same for the Vogue article - it was all quoted last year.

I'm sure if we were having a proper conversation we would be agreeing with each other. I don't think 'her reality' means she's suffering with delusions or psychosis. Personality disorders are a different matter - sociopaths, narcissists and psychopaths live in their own reality but they are very much aware of their surroundings and circumstances and use other people to their own ends. No idea if this pair have personality disorders or what they have going on, but I don't think that their manipulative and calculated behaviour contradicts the suggestion that they live in a reality that's at odds with the general population's.

I've known a similar wòman. Well educated, middle class, 6 children, 5 in care, 1 died as a baby. This was around 20 years ago. She said, resentfully, 'I don't know what X (infant death) died of they never gave me a death certificate'. I gathered from this that the child had died in hospital, so she hadn't registered the death herself, nor arranged a funeral. I guessed she had simply walked away from it. She was quite the most deranged person I ever met but apparently, according to doctors, not mentally ìll. Inexplicable. Very depressing.

@newnamethanks is it to be with being upper class and believing themselves to be untouchable.

If she wasn't mentally ill what was the narrative from the doctors? Just that she repeatedly made very bad choices and not good with contraception?

It seems odd that someone would put themselves through so many pregnancies only for the children to be removed? It's not sane thinking, is it?

Yes, I probably misunderstood the poster thinking they were saying she wasnt in actual reality. They were in reality and made efforts to hide their tracks.