Nottingham attacks - verdict

[DrunkenElephant]

I live in Nottingham and feel terribly sad reading the news today.

Could these deaths have been avoided if the police and mental health agencies had done more? But then how can more be done when services are on their knees?

I don’t know the answer to either question, but my hearts go out to the families of Barnaby, Grace and Ian.

The family aren't called upon to give a professional opinion on his mental illness.

The expert witnesses three forensic psychiatrist all agreed and all prepared assessment reports stating he was suffering from a severe and enduring mental illness, the nature and degree of the schizophrenia is such that he need treatment & monitoring in a secure hospital.

Just re visiting this thread now that they are reviewing the sentence.

Not read the thread, but an indefinite hospital order seems completely appropriate in these circumstances. A mother who killed her children received the same sentence due to mental illness. https://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/4504875.carshalton-mum-killed-kids-and-pleaded-for-cops-to-shoot-her/

So for those in the know.....

If the sentence is too lenient what alternative sentence will be given?

Will the crime (manslaughter) still stand and therefore the sentencing guidelines are matched with this crime?

Can a judge change a sentence from manslaughter to murder (????) to allow a longer sentence?

The paranoid schizophrenia won't change so can prison now be chosen as a suitable environment?

Can a sentence be produced that combines a hospital stay with automatic imprisonment on any potential alleviation of the underlying schizophrenia?

Seems complex.....

Interesting about the review

He can only be convicted of MS because of diminished responsibility. The alternative to what he’s been given would be something called a hybrid order so he can be returned to prison when /if his mental illness is under control. Schizophrenia can be really well treated so that’s a distinct possibility. As I understand it there wasn’t a very thorough investigation before into his intent, previous violence and collecting of weapons. Hybrid orders are rare but there is a place for them and I believe this case ti be one.

The other big difference is that he’s treated by the state as a prisoner, rather than a patient. He will only be given prison allowance rather than the fairly generous (when you consider bed and board are paid for) sickness benefits. A minor consideration I’m sure for the family but knowing he will be given £100’s per month curtesy of the taxpayer is pouring salt in the wound.

I imagine that a review has been agreed due to family and public outcry, which is understandable.

I would be very surprised if the sentence is changed after review though.

Thats really interesting about the benefit payments @Grandmasswag, I hope that aspect is changed.

It is not likely to my mind either.

"A sentence is unduly lenient where it falls outside the range of sentences which the judge, applying his mind to all the relevant factors, could reasonably consider appropriate".

Or where there has been a gross miss-application of the law.

I don't think either of those apply here.

Public feeling is running high, but that alone is not reason enough to amend a sentence. Doing so would open the sentence up to appeal from the other side, and they'd probably win.

Ironic that this thread has popped back up today. My son went awol from hospital yesterday at 5pm. He’s sectioned and not supposed to leave the grounds. Ward didn’t tell me. I found out at 9am this morning when a member of the public rang me after my son asked him to ring us. He’s a known danger to me and my family. Yet no alarm raised by ward to us. They still won’t tell me anything. I worry that one day I will become a statistic and fleeting headline.

I'm so sorry that must have been terrifying

Whatever happens with the verdict I really feel for the families

The mother spoke with heartfelt sadness on the radio earlier