DD lying. What to do?

[Carston]

She’s 13 and we are constantly finding out about little things she has lied about. Sneaking technology into her room at night, having secret social media accounts, faking being ill to avoid PE, taking my clothes without asking and claiming they were in her room and she had no idea. Those are just some examples. Some of the lies are completely pointless but she will never ever admit that she has lied or why. She also has an issue with asking for things. She just takes them. Whatever it is. We are not unreasonable and would generally say yes to most of the requests but she just won’t ask and then will get very upset and say she didn’t do it. We talk to her and agree to all be better at honesty etc and then it just happens again. I’m so upset and it seems like she’s just a compulsive liar.

The latest lie just feels like the final straw to me. What do I do? Get locks on rooms in the house? Seems like an awful way to live. Get her counselling? Take away her phone? I’ve tried talking to her in a non judgmental, non-angry way but the key is she won’t admit to most of the lies.

They all seem pretty normal (and annoying!) teenage behaviour tbh. Do you not remember being that age? Sending her to councelling for borrowing your clothes and fibibng about it seems really quite extreme...

So how do I deal with it then? I’m genuinely asking for ideas

And no I didn’t behave like that as a teenager which is possibly why I’m so lost with it all

it is normal but unacceptable behaviour for a teenage ime, although mine are adults so there wasn't as much SM when they were teenagers. how do you discipline her usually? it seems to have got out of hand.

It isn't normal at all. Most teens tell the occasional lie but this is much more than that.

There need to be consequences and of the suggestions, no phone for a while seems the one most likely to be effective.

Bear in mind Judge Judy's proclamation:

"How do you know when a teenager is lying?
Their mouth is moving."

Of course it's normal. The lies are to try and get her own way with the least effort and avoid a telling off. They're not pathological or about anything that doesn't affect her at all which would be more concerning.

Punish the action, not the lie. I'm sure the majority of teens have sneaked their phone into their room at bedtime, 'borrowed' mum or older sisters clothes or make up (kudos to you for having clothes a 13 yo likes!), and I'd guess most will have a secret SM account if they know their parents monitor their online activity.

So yes remove phone, replacement is a brick phone. Turn off WiFi, clothes wise can she earn money to buy her own if she isn't happy with what she has.

Of course it happens again, there is zero consequence for her. Clearly "having a chat" isn't working.

Do you think she’d be more likely to ask if she was allowed to text rather than ask you face to face ?

when mine were teens there wasn't as much SM going around and certainly it wasn't as intense as it is now so of course teens want on their phones all the time they might miss something, but I do think they need a break and taking and keeping her phone/ipad overnight could be a start..

White lies and sneaky ness are normal teenage behaviour

make sure all phones, iPads etc are accountable and locked away before bed time and turn off wifi etc if needed.

ask her why she is trying to skip PE at school. It could be something as small as she doesn’t like getting changed in front of people. Try coming from the angle of you want to help her fix the issue to make her feel better in the situation.

on the topic of clothes, tell her you’re flattered that she likes some of your stuff but she just show respect by asking and to borrow before taking.

edited to add: with regards to the social media posts, I would have a good chat about what we put on the Internet stays forever and how uploading things now or speaking to people in a mean way could stick with us when we’re adults and trying to get jobs etc.

This is very standard teenager behaviour.

She is lying to get out of trouble.

Most teenagers do it at some point.

Phone - if you don't want her to have it overnight then get a cash box or similar and lock it away overnight.

Taking your clothes - not an issue I had but yes a lock in your room will sort it.

There are consequences for individual incidents of course. We take away her phone etc. But I’m trying to deal with the sneakiness and lying as a whole as individual consequences such as no phone for a week etc just don’t seem to be stopping the behaviour.

Thank you for the thoughtful post.

We’ve had the ‘showing respect and asking before taking’ and internet danger conversations a million times. Talking just isn’t working.

PE she just won’t admit it’s a problem. But she’s ‘ill’ on PE day every single week without fail. Possibly making herself ill through anxiety about PE but because she will not admit it then further questions about why she doesn’t want to do it are just met with further affirmations that she is genuinely ill and it’s not about PE.

She does not have her phone in her room overnight already. She did sneak in other technology but we caught that and make sure we know where it all is before she goes to bed.

I lied every single PE day of my 4 years in secondary school my illnesses just got more "extreme" I hated pe I hated getting changed and I hated the comments from other girls. I would maybe contact her pastoral care teacher and talk about what's happening.

I also think a week without a phone will cause her anxiety and ramp up the lying, I personally would take it from her at bedtime or let her have it for a while and go and get it.

You cannot deal with the sneakiness and lying as a whole.

What you can do, is for example punish where you know she is lying.

So for example my teen would go into the bathroom and sit there for ten minutes on his phone and come out claiming he'd showered. I knew he hadn't because his hair wasn't wet so I'd send him back in until he came out wet.

But I would advise you - if she is lying to you and if she won't share about PE there may be something more serious going on and she obviously doesn't feel safe enough with you to be honest with you.

Could she be self harming and doesn't want to get changed because of scars? That kind of thing.

If you have been punishing for lying she may think "I can't tell mum because she'll think that because I didn't tell her before I was lying and I'll be in worse trouble than before."

Is there an auntie or grandma who she could start spending time with that she might open up to? An older cousin maybe?

Thank you for this reply. She walks around in hot pants and a vest top so I highly doubt self harming is the issue.

She does have plenty of family that she spends time with and feels comfortable with but I highly doubt she would be willing to open up to any of them. They are certainly there if she needs them.

The punishments have been mostly for actions that she knew we wouldn’t allow (such as sneaking the tech in her room at night etc) Rather than specifically for lying. A brazen and pointless lie I try to get to the bottom of by asking why she felt the need to lie and explaining that I might have been a little annoyed by her taking something she shouldn’t but the real problem is that she didn’t own her mistake and just keeps digging a hole for herself.

she would rather poke her own eyes out than admit you are right ! I don'!t really have any .magical advice for this, it does eventually pass

I'm glad to hear that self harming is unlikely to be an issue.

Most teens like most people lie because it gets them out of a difficult situation.

I lie to my mum quite a lot (I'm 44) because she worries about me and rings me incessantly if she thinks I'm ill. It's not helpful so I never tell her I'm ill as if I am the last thing I need to trying to help her be less anxious as well.

Your DD is lying because it gets her out of difficult situations. She hates PE - she lies and gets out of it. Etc etc.

A way to deal with it is specifically to punish for lying - so to say if you had just done X I would have shut the WiFi down for 1 hour but because you lied as well it will be 3.

Or - I am happy to lend you clothes (if you are) but if you take them and then lie the consequences will be 1 hour no WiFi for the lying,

We had a talk a while ago from the psychologist who works at DC's school about teens and behaviour. On lying, her position was that they (almost) all lie- so much so that it's practically a normal developmental stage as they process the transition from being a child (where what they do is largely within your control) to an adult (where it's out of your control)- lying is a normal part of finding their way through that transition as they test the waters from doing what they're told to making decisions for themselves and managing the consequences.

As such, don't focus on lies as they will simply become a wedge between you and encourage her to lie more. Focus on the behaviour. So this issue with having secret SM accounts is that it exposes her to risk, not that it's dishonest. The issue with the clothes is that you can't find your things, not that she's lied about it. To the extent you need to talk about lies, it should be practical- eg if she lies about where she's going then you don't know where she is in case something goes wrong, rather than the lying in itself being the key problem.

It's hard to do when you feel that as a parent you should be impressing on her the importance of honesty and trust, but these things are better handled positively- praise her when she is honest and tell her how it makes it easier for everyone as you know you can rely on her, whereas focusing on lies will just bring forth better lies.

Yes, exactly this.

Thank you this is really helpful.

I think the transition from child to young adult is what I’m struggling with. A chat about her not being safe if I don’t know where she is or what she’s doing online might have worked a couple of years ago but doing what her friends are doing and fitting in with them is far far more important than being safe or sensible.

I think at 13 she's old enough to understand your worries. I'd think about approaching it as a joint effort- she wants to do X, you feel worried about it, so what plan can you come up with between you that means that you're both happy.